Sarah Vaughter answers questions about OwnDoc products
Forums => Dermarolling / Microneedling => Topic started by: Katarina on June 21, 2010, 06:33:43 PM
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What are your thought's about this item?
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It is useful for acne scars. We plan to sell them in the future. A dermaroller will do the same job though. The most targeted scar treatment is the single needle, allowing you to approach the scar from different angles and using different needling densities. Single-needling requires lots of patience.
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How soon do you plan start selling DermaStamp?
Thanks!
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The beginning of winter.
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We now have it in store! :-)
Indeed an excellent tool to treat more serious acne scars on the face.
Buy dermastamp for acne scars
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After having been asked repeatedly to start selling dermastamps, we offer the dermastamp specifically for those who do not want to use a dermaroller on larger areas of facial skin but just want to treat a local area with acne scars or wide stretch marks. When they have too many scars to do it efficiently by single needling, a dermastamp fills the niche between single needle and dermaroller. You can of course treat localized acne scar areas with a dermaroller as well but for some people a dermastamp might be easier to maneuver.
To sum it up, a dermastamp is ideal when the surface area to treat is a bit too large for a single needle, and a bit too small for a dermaroller. Rolling inevitably results in an elongated treatment area. Stamping treats only a small cirle. You can treat irregular areas of acne scars easier with a dermastamp in some cases.
It's all about efficiently targeting the exact area you want to treat.
As to your remark on "copycat devices" and your hope about what we sell in our shop - Analizing your previous postings here and that peculiar remark, could you reveal what your stake is in this issue? Are you a co-inventor of the Dermaroller? Are you a microneedling practitioner?
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Hi Sarah,
I sincerely apologize if I made any comments that may have implied any negativity to your business. Let me make it clear that I am NOT a co-inventor of the Dermaroller or a microneedling practioner. I am just like any consumer who likes to do research on the derma roller and is inquisitive on its abilities to potentially remodel the skin in conjuction with the right skin care routine (e.g., Vitamin A & C + GHK-Cu + sun protection). I have recently purchased your 1.5 mm derma roller along with the EMLA cream. I am planning to start my derma rolling diary later this december with progress pictures. I may or may not post them up here. I think your website is fantastic that it sells affordable derma roller and skin care products AND reasonable intructions. I was just curious as to why it was necessary to add the derma stamp when the derma roller can provide the same results. That is where I assume the derma stamp acts as the "copycat" so to speak. I guess I find it much more preferred, for me, to use the derma roller instead of the derma stamp because it is more versatile. You can treat localized scar as well as larger skin areas with a smooth stroke of the roller. I do not mean to apply my view on this to every consumer. I came to realize that it all comes down to personal preference on how they like to hold the device and how they prefer to manuvere the needles (rolling vs stamping). Here is how I personally assess the pros/cons of each device:
Single Needle: effective at treating white stretch marks and scars but can be a tedious task when use over a large area of skin. Manuever the device by manually pricking the skin one at a time
Derma Stamp: effective at treating a variety of skin issues such as acne scars, skin discoloration, skin texture, and wrinkles on a localized skin area conveinently. Manuever the device by manually stamping a specific area of skin one at a time.
Derma roller: effective at treatment a variety of skin issues such as acne scars, skin discoloration, skin texture, and wrinkles on a localized AND elongated conveinently. Manuever the devic by manually rolling a specific or larger area of skin. Also, you get to roll left to right, up and down, and diagonally in an even manner. It may take some time to acquire the skill to control how much skin you want to prick with the roller.
Again, I am sorry that if you find my statement peculiar. It was not intended to be so. I mean no disrespect. :D
[Update: and about the whole store comment, I just think there are so many online shops these days that sell a lot of filler products, many of which work the same as each other. True, it can come down to personal preference. But it can also come down to: if there is a best, then use the best. If there is the cheapest, then sell the cheapest. Something like that.]
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It may be of interest that in fact the dermaroller is the "copycat" device.. The dermastamp was invented first, because it was the simplest method of mass-needling. The dermastamp is still going strong, existing in a variety of sizes, up to sizes that make "stamping" large areas of skin faster than "rolling".
The main thing is that one should use the best tool for the job, and there is a place for the dermastamp. We only sell it in the 1.5 mm version because treating acne scars with a shorter length is sub-optimal. So we're not looking just to fill up our store with all kinds of stuff. It took one year before we became convinced that there was a genuine utilization for it. Then we immediately proceeded to add it, because we like to be complete.
The same with Retinoic acid, that we recently added. We used to only offer a form of vit. A best suitable for after-care. But there also is the case of vit. A pre-care. Retinoic acid in a cream is better than Retinol acetate in an ointment for that purpose, and vice versa, Retinol acetate in an ointment is much better for post-needling than Retinoic acid.
But because we started small (with just 1.5 mm rollers) it takes time to expand, as we have to pay many thousands of dollars in advance for each product we add to our store.. We will add a few more products in the future, based on what we read in the scientific literature. Hyaluronic acid is interesting, for example. So far, we haven't been able to find a good quality, reasonable-priced Hyaluronic acid product suitable for microneedling.
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Ah! Is that so? The derma stamp came first? Well, my apology, again. I will retract my comment about the "copycat". Thanks for the insight.
PS: you should make a thread about the research you have found regarding the use of hyaluronic acid and its relationship/benefit with wound healing or derma rolling. I think that would be fabolous.
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when using dermastamp, is it sufficient to press just once per scar (if the d of stamp is enough to cover it) or several times, as recommended when using roller :confused:
thank you
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Hi Skinny,
I have found two You Tube video that showcase derma stamp demonstration.
[video=youtube;kGlUMFMEeOs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGlUMFMEeOs[/video]
[video=youtube;lDjUqE5Cy-c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDjUqE5Cy-c&feature=related[/video]
I only saw snippets of the videos. I think you can go over the same area over again. But I don't think you get the benefit of derma roller because you can roll diagnoally and up and down and left and right. I hope the video helps
best wishes
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If you stamp skin without scars - for skin rejuvenation - then a single press is more or less sufficient. If you press on scars, wrinkles or stretch marks then multiple presses "stamps" are advisable. Our dermastamp has 35 needles and covers an area of approx 1 cm2 approximately. If you stamp three times, you will get 105 pricks per cm2. Do not stamp three times on exactly the same spot but very slightly move/rotate the stamp with each stamping to ensure you don't stamp into the same holes.
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How far away are the needles apart? I mean, if they are very close, I think people need to practice to be skillfull at "very slightly move/rotate the stamp". Could be tough for some.
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They are about 1 mm apart. In fact, the advice to stamp a slightly different spot is superfluous, as the inherent randomness of the action ensures a high statistical probability that the needles don't go into the exact same spot (the skin holes close immediately - before the next stamping). I quoted from the manufacturers' instructions but there is no way you could prick the exact same spot accurate by a 0.01 mm twice in a row - it would be nearly impossible even if you tried to do it on purpose.
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Great insight from the manufacturer-kudos!
Um... when you say the holes close immediately, would that be a separate thing from having pin point bleeding? I mean, I am thinking that if the holes closed that quickly, then there shouldn't be any blood and just redness?
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Pinpoint bleeding. Meaning a tiny bead of blood, pumped out in the fraction of a second it takes for the micro-hole to close again. So the skin laceration takes time to heal, but the actual hole itself closes immediately, as if you had put a stick in viscous mud and pulled it out again. Microneedling is not like coring an apple, it is more like sticking a needle into rubber (elastin..)
The reason you'll get more product penetration on dermarolled skin is mostly due to capillary action and suction. Rubbing products into dermarolled skin causes lateral friction in the microchannels, so by capillary action and suction, the product slowly gets absorbed, aided by increased blood flow. After rolling, you do not have a lot of 0.25 mm wide holes in your skin.
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thank you for quick response and the videos.
i also wanted to ask your opinion if it is worth trying dermastamp to correct the depressed scar on the tip of the nose because of the thin skin there and underlying cartilage. have done this scar minimally with single needle once, however unsure if anything have changed for better.
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skinny;1051 wrote: thank you for quick response and the videos.
i also wanted to ask your opinion if it is worth trying dermastamp to correct the depressed scar on the tip of the nose because of the thin skin there and underlying cartilage. have done this scar minimally with single needle once, however unsure if anything have changed for better.
Hi skinny,
I think you are better off with single needling for specific spots like "depressed scar on the tip of the nose". Sarah sell single needles on her shop! Make sure you have a skin care regimen to do maintanence and boosting on collagen production. This includes hydroxy acids, copper peptides, tretinoin, optionally vitamin C, and sunscreen. I think the stamp is better off if you choose to treat a larger surface area. The nose is all contoured and stuff and I thinkk single needle is better.
[Update: here is a
Title: derma stamp
Post by: FINLEY on January 04, 2011, 02:58:03 PM
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Is it okay to use the stamp on a box car scar that is slightly smaller in diameter than the stamp- will I damage the adjacent skin??? I plan to use the 1.5 mm stamp on targeted areas which include a box car scar and a few depressed scars, and then do a rolling with a 2 mm roller on my entire face. Will this be safe and wise? Thanks in advance.
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No problem using a dermastamp. Just don't completely mash the skin. (You can needle extremely densely with the single needle because you can target the scar only). With a derma stamp the surrounding skin is going to be hit so do not totally mash it.
It might be quite painful to roll with a 2 mm roller onto the areas that have just been stamped. But if you can handle it, do it. Otherwise do it the other way round, first roll, then stamp. Or first roll and stamp a day or several days later.
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SarahVaughter;1047 wrote: Pinpoint bleeding. Meaning a tiny bead of blood, pumped out in the fraction of a second it takes for the micro-hole to close again. So the skin laceration takes time to heal, but the actual hole itself closes immediately, as if you had put a stick in viscous mud and pulled it out again. Microneedling is not like coring an apple, it is more like sticking a needle into rubber (elastin..)
The reason you'll get more product penetration on dermarolled skin is mostly due to capillary action and suction. Rubbing products into dermarolled skin causes lateral friction in the microchannels, so by capillary action and suction, the product slowly gets absorbed, aided by increased blood flow. After rolling, you do not have a lot of 0.25 mm wide holes in your skin.
Hi Sarah,
I was just rereading this posts of this thread and I am particularly intereseted to know more in this post of yours, especially the second part (bolded). What is exactly is causing the "suction"? When you say "capillary action", are you referring to the acute inflammation (hence incereased blood flow) caused by microneedling? Another thing, does the suctioning and capillary effects continues even after the holes are closed immediately (with 0.25mm)? I did a Google search on "lateral friction" and it give me Physics stuff that I cannot (quite) understand. So, what does that mean in terms of skin damage? I just like to know the mechanism or biology when it comes to skin needling. I like to know the specifics if you can provide it for me.
Thanks in advance!
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I was referring to Capillarity (having nothing to do with capillary veins or inflammation).
When you pierce the skin and make a micro-hole, you have created a thin, narrow, long tube.
Because when we say that the hole "closes", we don't mean that it closes in the horizontal plane. It closes in the vertical plane. That the skin "closes" means not that some kind of crust forms on top, but that the sides of the micro-channel move towards eachother, so that there is no 0.25 mm wide "air hole" in the skin. That happens immediately after rollign due to water cohesion and the surrounding tissue pressure.
A "closed" microchannel resulting from rolling with a 1 mm dermaroller can be regarded as a capillary tube with a depth of around 0.7 mm and a width of extremely much less than the original 0.25 mm needle diameter that was used to create that hole. From microneedled skin micrographs (microscopy photo's) we can see that those "closed" microchannels are but a few skin cell diameters wide, at most. And they are not filled with air, but due to capillary action (adhesion) filled with tissue fluids.
Of course those tissue fluids, because they have direct access to the skin surface (they reside in a pierced hole) evaporate continuously, and lateral friction in the moving skin also causes those fluids to be partially expelled from the "hole", aiding their evaporation.
Replensihment of those fluids happens with more tissue fluids, but also with externally applied skin products, due to capillary effects and lateral friction causing a suction effect (on a molecular level, whereby adhesion and cohesion forces play major roles).
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This is great information. Thanks for the wiki link; I just didn't read the math part, lol. I think I need a little bit more clarification. So capillary action pushes the tissue fluid to the surface and it evaporates, but how can that enhances penetration when "suctioning" is supposed to draw the product ingredients, say vit. C, into the skin? Seems like fighting forces to me... am I misunderstanding something? The lateral friction caused rubbing sounds more like "massaging in", "pressing in" or "pushing in" the ingrediens rather than suctioning.... right? I mean, if there are fluids being lifted by capillary action, does that not impair the absorption of ingredients?
This is what wikipedia states:
"Capillary action, or capillarity, is a phenomenon where liquid spontaneously rises in a narrow space such as a thin tube, or in porous materials such as paper or in some non-porous materials such as liquified carbon fibre. This effect can cause liquids to flow against the force of gravity or the magnetic field induction. It occurs because of inter-molecular attractive forces between the liquid and solid surrounding surfaces; If the diameter of the tube is sufficiently small, then the combination of surface tension (which is caused by cohesion within the liquid) and forces of adhesion between the liquid and container act to lift the liquid."