Sarah Vaughter answers questions about OwnDoc products
Forums => Dermarolling / Microneedling => Topic started by: Anna on December 03, 2010, 11:03:20 PM
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and it went pretty smooth! :D I was scared and nervous at first but I did it anyway and without numbing cream, although it did hurt quite a bit around the mouth area so I would deffinitely use the numbing cream on there next time. I used the 1.5 length and I rolled the entire face and got a few dots of blood but that was it it actually wasn't unbearable and right now my face looks like I have a sunburn. Afterwards I applied the infadolan cream even though I was worried about my oily skin, and surprisingly it felt sooooo good on the skin right afterwards It was very soothing and glided nicely over the skin so this is all I will be using for the next week. Anyway so far so good I'm very happy with the whole process I can't wait till I get to do it again in a month :D and I will update you guys in the next few days too
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so I rolled my face friday night and immediately after rolling my face was very red like I had a bad suburn and I had a few pinpoint dots of blood mainly on my forehead. Yesterday it was slightly pink barely noticeable and today I have no redness whatsoever and no peeling. Hmmm... Although I'm glad I look presentable and don't have to be homebound all weekend like I though I was going to be I am wondering if perhaps I did it right? Or if I applied enough pressure when rolling? Or maybe I just heal fast. Any thoughts on this Sarah?
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I can roll my entire face without using EMLA with the exception of the area around the mouth.
Everything you describe is perfectly normal for rolling with 1.5 mm. The skin gets very red immediately after rolling and ever so mildly red the next day. Peeling comes days later and this might be unnoticeable. The skin is a bit rough and dry for several days after dermarolling while the skin is being renewed. Protect it from the sun and keep it moisturized. Everything is fine from what you described. Do not expect to see any results after the first rolling, you have to be patient. It takes time.
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thanks again Sarah I was worried if I did it right because this is the first time I've done this kinda thing and I'm not expecting miracles after the first one but I sure will be doing this once a month for a year and can't wait to see the outcome. This is probably the best thing they could have come up with and effective obviously judging from all the before and afters I've seen. I'm so excited! :D
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oh and me too I didn't use any numbing cream at all but I have to say by the mouth area it did hurt more than the rest of the face. But it wasn't bad at all it was just a mild stinging sensation thank god cus I can't tolerate pain very well
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Oh my goodness, you are so brave! I bought the numbing cream. Hmm, I wonder if I should try it first without the numbing cream to see if it hurts that bad. I don't want to start my derma rolling until I get my acne breakout under control. Please post up more updates.
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it really wasnt bad at all at first my plan was to try a small area and see how much it hurts and if it was untolerable I would stop and order the numbing cream but it was not bad at all it was a mild stinging sensation and as soon as you're done rolling it goes away except a few spots where I applied a little more pressure than the rest those stung a little like a sunburn for a few hours. But yeahh all in all 3 days later I can see a little dryness, kindsa like scabbing but very small in some areas and I'm still putting on the infadolan. I have no redness at all I'm pretty happy so far
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I just hope I have as good a pain threshold as you, Anna. What about your neck, did you roll there? did it hurt? Oouu, just thinking about the needling puncturing my skin and making that sound just... yikes!!!! Good thing I bought the numbing cream JUST IN CASE
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yes I did use it on my upper neck and it did just fine. It's really not that big of a deal all those horror stories about your akin popping, it's pretty blown out of proportion. I found the experience to be very good and not half as dramatic as some people seem to make it out to be.
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I got brave and rolled, too. After looking at the needles (1.5) I decided to try it on my arm first. All went well, and it did not hurt, so I preceded to do my face and neck. The neck area was not painful in the least. I did not push very hard; I just used gentle pressure. It was not as bad as I thought it was going to be. My skin is a beautiful (LOL!) bright pink. I look very festive!
I have numbing cream, but decided not to use it. I wanted to feel how deep that I was going into my skin. I don't think that I will need it.
I am going to read more to see if I can use make-up tomorrow.
Shebandre
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We have some brave female users of the derma roller! I am thinking: why did i buy the numbing cream!?
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I would wait a couple of days to use makeup if I were you that's what Sarah reccomends in the dermarolling guide. But yeah I didn't use the numbing cream either because I wanted to see if I did it right because I'm sure if it didn't hurt at all then I probably didn't go deep enough and with the skin being numb you can't tell
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This might be a stupid question, but you use a mirror to monitor where you roll, right?
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it's been a week now I'm still applying the infadolan and nothing else. My skin was a little dry and flaky, though I'm not positive if it was due to dermarolling or cold weather. Anyway though looking good so far.
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Dry and flaky skin is normal several days after dermarolling because the skin is being renewed. It is basically a deep peeling.
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I guess I expected the peeling to be more severe than it was but needless to say I'm glad it wasn't. It just looks like normal dry skin very small flakes as if you spent a whole day outside I'm the cold. Is that normal type of peeling or was it supposed to be more severe?
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Yes it is normal. Some people peel more, some less. A dermaroller makes lots of micro-holes that heal very quickly. The skin in the micro-holes is being renewed and the debris is expelled.
Unlike a deep acid peel, a dermaroller doesn't remove entire layers of skin (removing entire layers makes the skin prone to infection, uneven pigmentation or scarring and it takes a long time to heal).
With a dermaroller, you achieve deep renewal but the micro-holes are surrounded by untouched skin, which makes it much safer and quicker to heal. Therefore you can go much deeper with a dermaroller than with acid peels.
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that's great thanks
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it's been about a month no significant changes to my acne scars but I did notice a wrinkle on my forehead has gotten a little smoother. I will continue to do this monthly and post any changes
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Hi Anna, how is progress at the moment? any improvements in terms wrinkles, fine lines, elasticity, pigmentation, firmness, etc? Scar reduction?
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nothing really yet my forehead wrinkle smoothed out a little but as far as the scars I can't tell any significant changes right now I'm about to do my roll again for the 2nd time and will continue once a month for the next 6 monnths we'll see I'm hopeful it will work.
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I am crossing my fingers it will work for you. I am starting my first session next Friday (hopefully). How is your skin care routine going? Are you using exfoliants, retnoid, GHK-Cu, Vitamin C and all that jazz? How are you going to determine result? Progress pictures? You are rolling with 1.5mm, correct?
Good luck,
PS: I remember Sarah says somewhere that skin remodelling in terms of Collagen III conversion to Collagen I phase takes a long time... months? I need to find that again.
[Update: I found the info Sarah wrote on collagen phase:
"Collagen production is a very slow and long process. There are several complex, intermediary stages in collagen production. Collagen formation goes though long intermediate phases from Collagen III and finally Collagen I. When you roll your skin with any needles that reach the dermis, collagen production can certainly not be completed in three days. It hardly even has started after three days. Its actually not even completed in five weeks but at least the first stages are completed. You should not roll before the skin is completely healed from the previous rolling. If you roll every three days with long needles (such as 1.5 mm), your skin will be in a state of permanent inflammation and swelling. It will look great because your wrinkles will be less visible due to that swelling but don't confuse this effect with permanent results!
Its a deceiving, short-term "trick" and being in a permanent state of inflammation will damage your skin in the long term.
Permanent inflammation is not a good idea at all. There is no reason to disturb the formation of new collagen that is not even remotely completed by pricking the skin again and again before the damage of the previous rolling is healed and collagen production completed. You can roll several times a week with short needles (0.2 or 0.25)." (LINK)
In another thread, I asked Sarah a question relating to this topic:
"I have read somewhere that the conversion from Collagen III to Collagen I takes months to complete. I do not understand the benefit and logic of rolling even 5-6 weeks after the first session. You said in one of your post that at least the first stages of collagen production is complete, but pricking the skin with a 1.5-mm again will cause trauma to the same area, again, so wouldn’t it destroy the collagen III “in progress” that have finish just the first few stages?
Wound healing has several phases: Hemostasis + inflammation, then proliferation/reconstruction and finally maturation/remodeling.
In the maturation stage, the collagen is replaced by a stronger form of collagen and its pattern is rearranged, the wound continues to contract.
The formation of new collagen is not localized to the exact area of the pricks. It's a consequence of a complex would healing cascade. And the pricks channels have zero diameter, weeks after a rolling session. So the chance of hitting those exact same spots is very low, in spite of the fact that you have quite a high needling density.
I have to say that there is at least one professional microneedling practitioner that disagrees with having such long breaks. She claims that the collagen formation process works differently than is described in professional literature. See, this is a complex subject, even for professionals." (
So according from what Sarah states, derma roller users needs to be patients as one or even two sessions might not be enough. Plus, waiting a month for dramatic scar reduction is most likely NOT gonna happen.. but i am going speculate that a few people get quicker and better results than others depending on rolling frequency and skin care maintenance.
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thank you I hope it will work too I'm tired of thinking about my skin. All I use now is say yes to tomatoes facial cleanser and skin organics vanilla acai lotion nothing else. For a while I was using lumene vitamin c capsules but ran out and haven't bought anymore those make your skin feel velvety to the touch but I'm speculating because it has silicones in the product and not the actual vitamin itself, anyway I like it for red marks so I'm gonna probably start to use that again.
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and I know not to expect any miracles right now I remember Sarah said somewhere it will take at least 10 months to see anything and it's been a month and a half so I'm gonna harbor some patience keep rolling once a month and just wait and see. And yes I do have some pics I took before rolling so that's how I know about any progress I just haven't posted them up.
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Anna;1164 wrote: thank you I hope it will work too I'm tired of thinking about my skin. All I use now is say yes to tomatoes facial cleanser and skin organics vanilla acai lotion nothing else. For a while I was using lumene vitamin c capsules but ran out and haven't bought anymore those make your skin feel velvety to the touch but I'm speculating because it has silicones in the product and not the actual vitamin itself, anyway I like it for red marks so I'm gonna probably start to use that again.
Hi Anna,
I have seen those Vitamin C capsules at my local CVS store! lololol. I do think that you get the skin smoothnes due to the blend of silicones but they gone after every wash (the silicones). I also wonder what the pH of the product is because ascorbic acid does not get asbsorbed properly without a pH of 3.5 or lower according to research. Another thing is how much Vitamin C is in the product. If the product has work for you then you should continue to use it, but I want you consider this: how about make your own vitamin C serum, this way, you will know the amount for yourself and the pH. Now about the Skin Organics lotion, I think it is a nice emollient product with a nice blend of ingredients such as Matrixyl, DMAE, and antioxidants (vitamin A & E and green tea), etc. I wonder how much of Matrixyl and DMAE is in the product.
Wanna read more on Matrixyl and DMAE? These articles are not research articles, kind of like essays that are consumer friendly... kind of.
[Update: I forgot to mention if you venture for DIY vitamin C solution, you save money. And for those you cannot tolerate L-ascorbic acid, then it is better to buy ready made non acidic and stabilized vitamin C derivative(s).]
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Anna;1165 wrote: and I know not to expect any miracles right now I remember Sarah said somewhere it will take at least 10 months to see anything and it's been a month and a half so I'm gonna harbor some patience keep rolling once a month and just wait and see. And yes I do have some pics I took before rolling so that's how I know about any progress I just haven't posted them up.
Anna, I think you should really consider incorporating diligently using an effective Vitamin C product AND another ingredient that is known for cell regeneration and/or collagen production, ethier Vitamin A retinoid or retinol OR copper peptide GHK-Cu. These ingredients incoprorated into your regimen should help faciliate the skin remodelling process (no gaurantee, but seems like well-researched approach, right?). Just think about it. I am not aware of any GHK-Cu at CVS or Walgreens or whatever. But for sure retinol products are readily available, but tretinoin is a at the doc's office or you can get the gel version in Sarah's store. Make sure you can tolerate 0.05% tretinoin. If you cannot, it is better to start with less active Vitamin A derivatives.
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thank you for that I value your opinion you obviously know your stuff! :) the skin organics version is probably very good I just can't bring myslef up to spend 70$ on a tiny little bottle, and I really have to be careful of what I put on my skin cause I'm very very sensitive and the lumene brand doesn't irritate my skin at all soo that's why I like that one I do wonder though how much or what percentage of vitamin c is in there.
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have you ever tried anything from say yes to tomatoes? I know the name is silly their first line is say yes to carrots but this one is geared towards breakouts and I'm really liking the cleanser it leaves my skin polished and doesn't irritate. I think I'm gonna try their mosturizer from the tomatoes line too. I really would like to know what you think of them. Thanks :)
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Anna;1177 wrote: have you ever tried anything from say yes to tomatoes? I know the name is silly their first line is say yes to carrots but this one is geared towards breakouts and I'm really liking the cleanser it leaves my skin polished and doesn't irritate. I think I'm gonna try their mosturizer from the tomatoes line too. I really would like to know what you think of them. Thanks :)
Hi Anna,
I saw your post early in the day but I was at school and I didn't have enough time to post up my reply and find things to add.
Yes, I have heard of “Yes To” brand and its sub-brands, but I have never tried any of the products. I see the products all the time at my local drugstores lololol. I will say this: if the cleanser works for you, you should continue to use it. But it is interesting to note that there are fragrant ingredients and fragrance in the cleanser AND the moisturizer, which is odd because you say you have “very very sensitive” skin. Plus, these ingredients are not at the very bottom of the list, either. Perhaps, your skin sensitivity to skin care ingredients is of a small range. In other words, maybe you are sensitive to only a few particular ingredients that happen to be prominent in many brands (e.g, denatured alcohol & fragrance), thus, giving you the impression that you are sensitive to many (assuming you have tried many products and they give you adverse reaction such as redness, stinging, etc). There are many types of fragrance compounds out there, but I guess you can cross out the ones found in Yes To Tomatoes because they have not cause any trouble to your skin. Are you sure you are as sensitive as you say? Do you know any particular ingredients you (subjectively) deem as problematic to your skin? This is can tough to determine accurately because each skin care products have dozens of ingredients in them. I think your skin is more resistance than you say it is sensitive. Buuut, the best way to know really, if you are very unsure, is go to a trusted broad certified dermatologist and let him or her analyzed your skin accurately and professionally.
If you trust Paula Begoun and her work, then you should read her reviews on these two products, which I have pasted below from Beautypedia.com. Warning: Paula sometimes to make snide and assertive remarks about the products of the company, so read at your own discretion. I am just doing the quoting:
“Review: It seems that the folks behind the Yes To products think that watermelon extract is the key to removing excess oil and impurities from skin, which means that all other cleansers (including the other Yes To cleansers) got it wrong. It shouldn’t come as a shock to you to learn that watermelon extract has no special benefit for oily or dirty skin. Try cleansing your face with a big slice of pure watermelon and see how it feels—you won’t ever do it again.
Beyond the foolish claims (the same ones endlessly bandied about in the natural products sector of the cosmetics industry), this is a basic cleanser for normal to dry skin. The mélange of plant oils isn’t going to please those with combination, oily, or acne-prone skin, while the fragrance and fragrant plants are completely wrong for sensitive skin. This cleanser does a decent job of removing makeup, but for complete removal you may need a washcloth."
Yes To Tomatoes Clear Skin Daily Clarifying Cleanser
Aqua (Water), Sodium Coceth Sulfate, Solanum Lycopersicum (Tomatoes) Extract*, Olea Europaea (Olive) Leaf Extract*, Aspalathus Genus (Red Tea) Extract, Citrullus Vulgaris (Watermelon) Extract, Lauryl Glucoside, Coco Glucoside, Maris Aqua (Dead Sea Water), Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Extract*, Punica Granatum (Pomegranate Peel) Extract*, Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera Leaf) Extract*, Capsicum Annuum (Red Pepper) Extract*, Parfum (Fragrance), Magnesium Chloride, Maris Limus (Silt) Extract, Ricinus Communis (Castor) Oil, Citric Acid, Benzyl Alcohol, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil*, Olea Europaea (Olive) Oil*, Calendula Officinalis Oil*, Niacin*, Dunaliella Salina Extract, Spirulina Maxima Extract*, Rhodella Reticulata Extract, Ginkgo Biloba Extract*, Camelia Sinensis (Green Tea) Extract*, Dehydroacetic Acid. * Certified Organic Ingredient
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"Review: Irritating rosemary extract is the second ingredient in this allegedly tranquil moisturizer. Although most of the other ingredients in this cleansing lotion (which are completely inappropriate for oily skin) are innocuous and not particularly helpful for any skin type, it’s the amount of rosemary extract and its irritant potential that’s hard to ignore."
Yes To Tomatoes Daily Balancing Moisturizer
Aqua (Water), Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Extract*, Isopropyl Palmitate, Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera) Gel*, Chamomilla Recutita (Camomile) Extract*, Aspalathus Genus (Red Tea) Extract*, Cetyl Alcohol*, Solanum Lycopersicum (Tomatoes) Extract*, Maris Aqua (Dead Sea Water), Propolis Cera Extract*, Citrullus Vulgaris (Watermelon) Extract*, Capsicum Annuum (Red Pepper) Extract*, Maris Limus (Silt) Extract, Algae (Spirulina, Rhodella, Dunaliella) *, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil*, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Oil*, Olea Europaea (Olive) Oil*, Calendula Officinalis Oil*, Ginkgo Biloba Leaf Extract*, Niacin*, Olea Europaea (Olive) Leaf Extract*, Benzyl Alcohol, Parfum (Fragrance), Dehydroacetic Acid, Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E) *. Certified Organic Ingredient
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So it is clear that Paula has a problem with Rosemary extract and the fragrant and fragrance components of the products. Apparently she base her reviews on published research that is provided on her website. I shall provide the links below to the specific ingredient sections (not studies, but I can find them if you want me to)
Rosemary extract: LINK
Fragrance: LINK
Volatile Oil: LINK
By the way, from January to February, Beautypedia.com is open for public viewing. So… if you have any other products you would like to see reviewed based on Paula Begoun’s knowledge of the research she has found, then you should check the website out! (www.beautypedia.com).
See you next time! ;););););)
[Update: Just to be safe, there is this questionaire that you can take to determine your skin type accurately ---> LINK. This skin type topology is created by Dr. Leslie Baumann and it has been around for a while. My skin type is OSPW. I have her book too, so if you figure out your skin type, I can provide you with the list of ingredient you should avoid according to the doc. remember you have to answer the question honestly if you want to know the right skin type.]
[Update 2: videos on sensitive skin
What is Sensitive Skin
[video=youtube;Gza7GB6dKOk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gza7GB6dKOk[/video]
Myth: Hypoallergenic Labels
[video=youtube;VO9oqqgl8YA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO9oqqgl8YA[/video]
How To Care For Sensitive Skin
http://www.cosmeticscop.com/videos/sensitive-skin.html
Skin Care Advice : About Skin Care Products for Sensitive Skin
[video=youtube;1R8MWJ5w6js]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R8MWJ5w6js[/video]
]
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From what I have learned and researched about sensitive skin, I suspect your skin sensitivity can be, in part, due to a damaged skin barrier; that is, you are losing essential skin-identical ingredients. According to Paula Begoun:
"The term “skin-identical ingredients” or "skin-repairing ingredients" refers to the substances between skin cells (technically referred to as the intercellular matrix) that keep skin cells connected and help maintain skin’s fundamental external structure. Think of your skin as consisting of bricks, with the mortar being the material that holds these bricks together. Skin cells are the bricks, and the mortar (cement) between them is made up of skin-identical ingredients. An intact, stable, healthy, and strong mortar structure is what allows skin to look smooth, soft, moist, supple, and young.
Unfortunately, the mortar, especially in the external barrier of our skin, is easily compromised by sun damage (that’s the major culprit), irritation, overcleansing, overscrubbing, dry climate, air conditioning, indoor heaters, skin disorders, and on and on. When the skin’s mortar (the intercellular matrix) breaks down, water loss, flakiness, and inflexible, stiff, uncomfortable-feeling skin is the result. It is of vital importance for all skin types to maintain or restore the skin’s mortar (intercellular matrix) to help skin fight off environmental stresses and most certainly look younger.
These substances that keep skin intact are what I refer to as skin-identical ingredients. Antioxidants are one group of skin-identical ingredients but skin-identical ingredients also encompass an additional assortment of substances, such as ceramides, lecithin, glycerin, polysaccharides, hyaluronic acid, sodium hyaluronate, sodium PCA, amino acids, cholesterol, glycerol, phospholipids, glycosphingolipids, glycosaminoglycans, glycerides, fatty acids, and many, many more. All of these give skin what it needs to keep skin cells together. Just adding water alone can do nothing if the intercellular matrix is damaged. When a moisturizer contains a combination of these, it can help reinforce the skin’s natural ability to function normally, improve skin’s texture, fight environmental stress (sun, pollution, and more), and, along with antioxidants and cell-communicating ingredients, eliminate dry skin with regular use." (LINK)
More info? DERMAdoctor has an article relating to skin barrier and she makes product suggestions: LINK to Ceramide Barrier Repair article.
sooo... if you really really really have sensitive skin you should definitely look for skin identical ingredients in your leave-on products.
I need to go to swimming class Byeyeyeyeyeyey ;);););););)
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lol wow you really outdid yourself thanks for all your effort. The cleanser does have a pretty heavy smell but not unpleasant and surprisingly it didn't irritate my skin. I find I'm sensitive to anything with alcohol or salycilic acid or aha's thus I've been using burts bees chamomille cleanser for ever but I wanted to try something different and th eyes to line is agreeing with me so far. Thanks again :)
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thanks for all the links too
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Anna;1180 wrote: lol wow you really outdid yourself thanks for all your effort. The cleanser does have a pretty heavy smell but not unpleasant and surprisingly it didn't irritate my skin. I find I'm sensitive to anything with alcohol or salycilic acid or aha's thus I've been using burts bees chamomille cleanser for ever but I wanted to try something different and th eyes to line is agreeing with me so far. Thanks again :)
Now I think this is so much better that you are specific about which ingredients irritate your skin. You're situation is not unique (which is a good thing); I have seen so many testimonies of which are complaints about sensitivities to alcohol and AHA. Though, your sensitivity to BHA is a surprise because the research behind it is that it has anti-inflammatory properties due to its (close?) relationship to aspirin. BHA is salicylic acid whereas aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid. I am interested to know which kind of BHA products you have used in the past. Why? I have a feeling you are sensitive to another substance in those BHA product; that is just may be "menthol" or "peppermint extract/oil" or "methyl lactate". The listed ingredients are known to produce a cooling, tingling, counter-irritant effects and an aroma ---none of which are good for DAILY used according to Paula Begoun. Plus, a lot of acne products with BHA in it have a lot of alcohol... SOOooo you may have all of this time victimize BHA as adversary when it was the alcohol doing all the drying and inflammatory work. Plus, you need to contact the company to ask for the pH of the product if they do not provide it on the label to make sure the exfoliant can do its job.
Cool and Tingly Sensation Not Cool for Skin
[video=youtube;4pCvnsOiFHw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pCvnsOiFHw[/video]
What percent BHA did you have experience with? Maybe try a low strength 1% and see how it goes. But if you have already tried and over with it any BHA products, then ok, nevermind, BHA is just not for you. This is just something to think about.
Now, also, I guess you aren't completely sensitive to low pH products because pure vitamin C products are very acidic (assuming manufactured correctly). The acid part of l-ascorbic acid can be irritating, but it doesn't irritate you so hooray! Well, I am assuming lumene product is below or at 3.5 pH. What you think?
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Anna;1181 wrote: thanks for all the links too
You are welcomed!
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i ve used products that typically have 1% or 2 they strip my skin and make it feel tight so yeah definitely not for me. I've managed to clear my skin with diet and the few pimples that do occur are usually monthly hormonal and the yes to products have been woking wonders on me I really like it I tried the tomatoes mask and it's incredible I highly recommend it. Btw in your other post you were wondering about clearing acne before rolling try 'clean' it's a detox program by dr alejandro jungas it's 2 liquid meals and one solid a day and I kid you not the clear skin is just one benefit from this I LOVE IT
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Hi Anna,
My skin is very very much clear now. lol. I am most likely going to roll this coming Friday or Saturday. Clearing my skin took a little more than month of that plan I have with my other thread. LINK to thread. The key ingredients that worked for me are 2% salicylic acid,10% benzoyl peroxide, and 8% sulfur & 2% resorcinol. Personally, my biggest struggle is having a proper sleeping schedule. Stress from not sleeping almost always give me one or two deep-in-the-side (what's the term for this? cystic acne?) skin pimples, there is no way to treat it with topically besides waiting for it to subsides or worst comes to the surface and all huge and painful. But, remember I am only saying this about me but I am sure I can testify on behalf some others.
I am not knowledgable about a lot of detox plans and stuff like that and its effacy to treating acne. I have never heard of this detox plan before, but it sounds interesting I am better at looking into topicals and internal treatments. But I can give it the benefit of the doubt that the idea behind a healthy diet can or should regulate your "systems", but this takes commitment. I am going to look into the "clean" detox, but I don't think I am going to try it because I am already clear. I wonder what Sarah thinks of this Clean detox plan. Sarah, what do you think?
Anna, can you please describe to me what kind of liquid meals you drank and solid you eat throughout the program? How long is the program? Is there variety to the liquid and solid meals? I am going to look into this in a little bit. I am glad this program has worked for you. How long have you been on this? Still on?
Is liquid diet consider healthy? I mean, just 2 liquid and a solid a day? Does it include everything in the food pyramid?
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Just a quick reply:
1. Lack of sleep results in a very severe depression of the immune system. It's more accurate to call it immune system depression than stress. But indeed it is a form of stress. You get the acne (= bacteria) because of the damage lack of sleep causes to the immune system.
2. There is no such thing as "detoxing". "Detoxing" is a quackery term, like "Aura" and "Chakra". The only people that need detoxing are people on kidney dialysis and people in need of a liver transplant.
3. Liquid food can be just as healthy as solid food, but it is hard to do. You need some fibre, for example. That can be had from real, fresh orange juice for example and vegetable juices.
And long-term, liquid food weakens the stomach muscles and the muscles in the colon (that do the peristaltic movements).
4. The food pyramid is unsound dietary advice. If you follow the food pyramid, you're eating quite sub-optimally. A paleo-diet comes closest to what humans need. Lots of good fats (fish fat, some mammalian fat and fat from nuts), some fruit, many greens, quite a bit of protein, very few carbs. Avoid diary products and bread. Yes I know - such a diet is unsustainable with our current population, and it is unfair to animals in the bio-industry. I believe we, and the animals would have been happier if we never left the African plains or the rainforests..
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sure I can tell you a little bit about it; it's a 3 week program but you can do it for 1 or 2 and basically it includes the foods you can eat are dairy, beef, pork, and even certain fruits that are according to dr jungas known to be allergenic. Anyway I've been on it for a week now already my skin has cleared, I've lost like 4 pounds and my energy levels are awesome plus the whites of my eyes are whiter another nice side effect. The liquid meals are basically a variety of fruits and veggies and nut butters thrown into a blender to make a smoothie or a soup and it's very balanced. For example, yesterdays meals for me were: breakfast was a smoothie made with almond milk, coconut milk, kale, avocado and mangos. Lunch was a salad with lentils zuchinni cucumbers carrots spinach scallions lime garlic and a load of spices like turmeric, cumin and fresh herbs as well; and dinner was a soup made with all these fresh fruits and veggies and nuts blended squash celery apples pine nuts tarragon a tiny bit of salt and apple cider vinegar. So that about sums it up, there a LOT more recipes that include salmon, tuna, chicken and even lamb if you're into that personally I'm not a fan of lamb lol but yeah all these fruits and veggies seem daunting to do but really you're just tossing them all in a blender and making a smoothie or a juice if you have a juicer lunch is the most labor intensive one cus you actually cook some of it but still weeeeell worth it.
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oh let me clarify that first sentence I'm typing this on my phone so it's misspelled, those first foods I mentioned( pork beef and dairy) are NOT allowed during the program I made it sound like they are lol
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Anna;1192 wrote: sure I can tell you a little bit about it; it's a 3 week program but you can do it for 1 or 2 and basically it includes the foods you can eat are dairy, beef, pork, and even certain fruits that are according to dr jungas known to be allergenic. Anyway I've been on it for a week now already my skin has cleared, I've lost like 4 pounds and my energy levels are awesome plus the whites of my eyes are whiter another nice side effect. The liquid meals are basically a variety of fruits and veggies and nut butters thrown into a blender to make a smoothie or a soup and it's very balanced. For example, yesterdays meals for me were: breakfast was a smoothie made with almond milk, coconut milk, kale, avocado and mangos. Lunch was a salad with lentils zuchinni cucumbers carrots spinach scallions lime garlic and a load of spices like turmeric, cumin and fresh herbs as well; and dinner was a soup made with all these fresh fruits and veggies and nuts blended squash celery apples pine nuts tarragon a tiny bit of salt and apple cider vinegar. So that about sums it up, there a LOT more recipes that include salmon, tuna, chicken and even lamb if you're into that personally I'm not a fan of lamb lol but yeah all these fruits and veggies seem daunting to do but really you're just tossing them all in a blender and making a smoothie or a juice if you have a juicer lunch is the most labor intensive one cus you actually cook some of it but still weeeeell worth it.
You are making me soooooooo hungry I am salivating reading your post. Good thing I have a bagle next to me! ha! Looks like your liquid and solid diet consist a lot of good things: fruits (antioxidant), vegetable (fiber), meat (fat protein), nuts (omegas), and a long with lots of flavors. Wait..are you allow to season your food? Salt and pepper allowed? Spices? yeah, this looks like one tedious diety plan and money money money! I don't know if I could keep up with that and school. Lol.
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SarahVaughter;1190 wrote: Just a quick reply:
1. Lack of sleep results in a very severe depression of the immune system. It's more accurate to call it immune system depression than stress. But indeed it is a form of stress. You get the acne (= bacteria) because of the damage lack of sleep causes to the immune system.
2. There is no such thing as "detoxing". "Detoxing" is a quackery term, like "Aura" and "Chakra". The only people that need detoxing are people on kidney dialysis and people in need of a liver transplant.
3. Liquid food can be just as healthy as solid food, but it is hard to do. You need some fibre, for example. That can be had from real, fresh orange juice for example and vegetable juices.
And long-term, liquid food weakens the stomach muscles and the muscles in the colon (that do the peristaltic movements).
4. The food pyramid is unsound dietary advice. If you follow the food pyramid, you're eating quite sub-optimally. A paleo-diet comes closest to what humans need. Lots of good fats (fish fat, some mammalian fat and fat from nuts), some fruit, many greens, quite a bit of protein, very few carbs. Avoid diary products and bread. Yes I know - such a diet is unsustainable with our current population, and it is unfair to animals in the bio-industry. I believe we, and the animals would have been happier if we never left the African plains or the rainforests..
1) Severe depression of immune system, huh? Sounds super scary and I think I have to agree with you. There are days when I do homework at the last minute and I stay up all day and night, and my face looks like... ahem. In other words, all the good things I want to see are gone to the worst, dullness, acne, ect shows up.
2) I have heard about this before
3) Oh, nicce to know. I understand.
4) You need to have a talk to my Health 1 professor. Lol. Tell her a paleo-diet is better. I never heard of this before. I am not very good, or at all, regarding nutrition. Yeah, humans are crazy, they move all the time!
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Anna;1193 wrote: oh let me clarify that first sentence I'm typing this on my phone so it's misspelled, those first foods I mentioned( pork beef and dairy) are NOT allowed during the program I made it sound like they are lol
Hm... I have read somewhere that diary like cow milk does can cause (or was it trigger) acne due to the hormones or something in in. I need to find it.
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Many people lack Lactase, the enzyme to digest the Lactose in diary products. But the biggest threat (esp. for post-menopausal women) is the imbalance in Calcium with other minerals such as Magnesium. This causes Osteoporosis. Yes, diary products are the main cause of osteoporosis. Milk is not a natural food for adult mammals. Full fat milk has too many bad fats (esp. milk from the bio-industry) and skimmed milk has not enough natural fat-soluble vitamins. Milk is good for calves, not for adult humans. You can still consume diary, but be aware of the fact that the diary industry's claims are bogus. Cow milk is not a natural or healthy food for adult people. And if you are a woman past menopause, any kind of diary, even 100 ml of milk per day will significally increase your risk of Osteoporosis. This is due to a disbalance in the Osteoblasts/Osteoclasts system caused by excess Calcium (in disbalance with Magnesium and Phosphorus). The Osteoblasts get killed by the excess Calcium. Don't forget that bone density is irrelevant for bone strength. A lot of chalk is still a brittle, crumbly substance. Bone is not merely made of Calcium. Look at the statistics. Osteoporosis is linear with diary consumption. Natural vit. D is incredibly important too though. Get your minerals from veggies and nuts, not from diary.
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I thought I posted a reply earlier I guess it didn't go through. Anyway, wow that's pretty scary about milk I'm glad I don't care for it. To reply to K yes you can use spices like salt pepper cumin turmeric basically anything that's natural and yes it is very expensive especially if it's all organic which I say it's worth paying the extra few bucks for. My theory is I'd rather spend my $ on good food, then hospital bills.
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Anna,
I did get your other post that you didn't mean to put milk as part meal plan. Thanks for the reply about the spices. Yeah, organic food ani't cheap!!! I wish you the best.
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@ Sarah,
Ooooo, something new to learn! Yay! Funny though, how then this thread make a turn for Osteoporosis LOL. You make be feel bad I use to drink full fat milk.. a lot.. maybe that is why I got so much acne and I never gained a lb. LOL. I find it is interesting that so some time now I only hear about Calcium as part of the problem, i don't really hear about imbalances with other minerals like magnesium and phosphorus. I want to do some research on this. Man, so much science so little time!
So... is soy milk okay? I heard there is estrogenic properties in there, but I never had any kind of bad acne breakout if my memories serve me correctly. Oh, how about chocolate milk? Almond milk? Sheep milk? lol
So for adult males, it's okay then? You know so much about nutrition and food and health, Sarah, kudos for you!
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You should stay far away from any soya products if you are not 100% sure they've not been made with gene-modified Soya. Research showed that rats and mice suffer organ damage on gene-modified corn and I'm not sure similar problems don't apply to soya beans.
There is one kind of meat and diary very suitable for humans, because we have evolved to consume it: Goat's meat and goat's milk. As primitive men, we did not have cows but we did have semi-domesticated goats. Research shows that goat meat and fish are just about the only (AFAIK the only) animal protein sources that lower the bad cholesterol. Similar good properties for goat diary.
If you want to know whether someting is good or bad, just answer the following questions:
1. Did humans at my ancestral geographical lattitude eat this food regularly before the invention of agriculture? (The invention of agriculture can be considered the biggest disaster that has even befallen the human race, in terms of food quality)
2. Has the food been adulterated in any way? (gamma sterilization, gene-modification, hydrolizing etc.)
3. Has the food been grown in non-depleted soil? (All ordinary commercial food is grown on highly depleted soil!)
4. Has the animal been fed natural food instead of used oils from the hamburger industry or ground up dead animals from the bio-industry? (Norwegian salmon is downright dangerous to eat in any quantity due to this)?
5. Is the food polluted with heavy metals or dioxins? (Canned fish, bio-industry eggs are highly suspect)
If you can answer these questions, you will know pretty well whether something is good to eat or not.
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Wow, these are all pretty much technical questions I doubt the general public knows to even bother asking the manufacture about before they buy soy product. Lol. But very good to know. I'll look further into this later on. There is so much I don't know.
But I do want to ask: can't human adapt those changes in foods? That is one of our greatest trait. Or maybe there is too much change to too and we cannot catch up. Hmm..
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I don't think non-gene modified soya products exist any more, in the US. At least not US-produced products.
Sure, humans can adapt to dioxins and heavy metals etc. Give it a few hundred thousand years and you may see genetical changes that make us cope. However, hundreds of thousands of years (or even 10 000 years) is not going to help the people who are alive today.
Certain toxins or, the other extreme, lack of nutrients are fundamantally incompatible with life based on organic chemistry though. But give it a few hundred million years and who knows, we can become like the trees, who need little else but sunlight and water..
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if you want a healthy alternative to milk try almond milk, but make it yourself because the ones at the stores have all kinds of additives in them even the supposed natural ones. I make my smoothies with that and also coconut milk very nutritious and delicious too.
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How do you make your own almond milk?
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you soak one cup of organic almonds in 3-4 cups water for 3 hrs and then put it in a blender for 15 minutes then separate the left over almonds from the liquid basically strain it if that's the right word
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Thanks, I love almonds so I'm very interested in how almond milk tastes
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an update for you all; its been almost 4 months since i initially did the dermaroller, ive done it 4 times so far and the results have been pretty good so far. there are some scars that are definitely smoother and there are ones that havet changed at all. at this point im going to continue rolling and start using single needles on the scars that havent been changed like my chicken pox ones.i will keep you all posted on the progress. and btw the clean diet i was on helped me lose 20 pounds.
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Wow - congratulations! (with losing 20 pounds).
4 months is not much, with microneedling. Solid results are to be seen after approx. ten months.
If you see some progress after four months it is a good sign that more progress will follow :-)
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Hi everyone! I'm a newbie here and found this site after reading up so many websites on dermaroller.
I would like to know what size of dermaroller needle I should buy as I have a few old icepick scars on my face.
May I know if I can use dermaroller if there are blackheads & whiteheads on the face?
I can't seem to get rid of them entirely, as I have oily skin.
Looking forward to your advise before buying from Sarah.
Thank you.
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Ice pick acne scars are difficult to access for a dermaroller. You should use our single needles and needle the scar only. It would be good to combine it with dermarolling.
Use a 1.5 mm dermaroller every 3-4 weeks and needle several scars a day (or whatever suits you). The scar will be red for some days after needling so do not needle too many in one go if you want to avoid having too many red spots on your face.
You should not use a dermaroller on infected skin. The presence of pus is a big no-no.
Use the A-Ret for blackheads & whiteheads and products with salicylic acid.
Dermarolling works for acne scars or other scars or wrinkles but it cannot significantly and permanently reduce pore size. Pores are ducts in the skin and their size is genetically determined. You cannot change that. Many websites claim that dermarolling can reduce pore size but our customers reported that they were unable to achieve improvements in regard to pore size.
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Thanks for the response.
Can the Copper Peptide mask be replaced with other mask?
I still have some Vit. E capsule & Tea Tree Oil.
Can any of these items be used to aid the needling & dermarolling process?
I just placed an order for:
Copper peptide facial mask
1.5 mm dermaroller
Infadolan
A-Ret Tretinoin gel
Xylocaine (Lidocaine) - sent from India by EMS
Vitamin C
5 special single needles
Does it mean I will be receiving 2 separate package since the Xylocaine will be sent from India?
Do you know how long it will normally take to deliver to SEAsia customers?
Sorry for troubling you with so much questions.
Thank you!!
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We don't send to Malaysia at all, I am very sorry about that. I have refunded you and cancelled the order because we lost half the packages sent to Malaysia.
Our web store has no option for us to block certain countries or geographical areas from purchasing, we are still working on getting a better web store.
It doesn't help to use tracking because the process of us getting refunded when packages disappear from Malaysia is non-functional - we tried.
So the only option is to use FedEx. From the country we dispatch from, that costs us around 100 dollars in courier fees.
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Ok, what a shame. Thanks for the refund anyway.