Derminator



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Topics - SarahVaughter

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76
>I have very deep white stretch marks which are quite wide in width and

      >cause me distress.Can the derma roller work to getting the marks back to

  >normal skin colour or do they only help with the skin texture and >tightness?

    Stretchmarks are deep furrows in the skin and unfortunately there is currently no method to make them completely disappear. If I promised you that your stretchmarks would disappear with our dermarolling products, it would be a lie.

   

  You can achieve a big improvement in the appearance of the stretchmarks with dermarolling combined with single-needling provided you have lots of patience and perseverance. It is a long-term project.

   Repeated needling of your stretchmarks should eventually make your stretchmarks a bit shallower, narrower and the skin color will improve and blend more with the surrounding skin. Nevertheless, stretchmarks are scars and the color of the scar will always be different from the normal skin.

   Needling can also trigger Melanocyte production (if you are lucky).

  Stretchmarks usually have no melanocytes and that's why they do not tan. You should single-needle your stretchmarks repeatedly (once in 4-5 weeks) and then expose your stretchmarks to the sun and hopefully they will tan a bit. Not everybody had Melanocyte production and not everybody achieved a strong improvement with single-needling but many of our customers did.

       

  Needling is done by our single needle that we specifically designed for this purpose, It is very thin (0.25 mm) with a long taper but strong enough to repeatedly prick the skin without it getting blunt or bent.

  Eventually it will get blunt of course and you have to replace it.

 You use the single needle in combination with a dermaroller, as explained in our instructions.

   > because i have triedthe derma roller on and off and i notice my skin

  > isnt as wrinkled however the white lines are still there? Any reccomendations?

 

You should try to densely prick your stretchmarks with our singe needle which is a part of our dermarolling kit. Its laborious but it is worth it. You can prick several stretchmarks every day. Once you get the hang of it you can do it quite quickly.  

  It is explained in our instructions how to do it:

  http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

 

  That method should be only used on the stretchmarks themselves, not on the surrounding skin.

 

  When the needling has healed you can expose your stretchmarks to the sun and they might tan.

But first they should be repeatedly pricked (once a month per stretchmark) for several months.


77
>Also, I used the Infadolan ointment last evening.  How

  >often do I use it, and where does the Vit. C Serum fit in, especially when

    >I use my regular face and eye creams?



            Vit. C applied externally will slowly decay in your skin over the course of at least 70 hours so you do not have to apply vit. C serum every day. Use vit. C serum on the day of rolling, before you roll to ensure a high concentration of vit. C in your skin.

    Do not use vit. C just after rolling or even a couple of days after rolling if you roll with needles longer than 0.5 mm. Wait for 3 days.

       

    If you roll with needles longer than 0.5 mm, apply a very small amount of Infadolan every day for several days after rolling, at least once a day.

       

            You can use your regular skin creams but if you roll with needles longer than 0.5 mm, do not use anything that can be bacterialy contaminated for several days after rolling, such as a jar of cream that you frequently put your fingers in. Infadolan comes in a tube so it can't easily get seriously contaminated.

78
> I also have the 1.0mm roller and the 0.5 Narrow roller, but I'm still

  > confused as to how to use the 3 different sizes. Can

    > they ALL be incorporated in my routine, for example: Can I still use

      > the 0.5 Narrow once a week, then the 1.0 every 3 weeks, and then the 1.5?

 

    Yes you can, provided you are not using them on the same skin that you have rolled before, according to the minimum interval times (needle-length-dependent) described in our instructions.

      The same skin should not be rolled more than once in three weeks with 1.5 mm and no roller except for product absorption should be used on that skin in the meantime. You can use a 0.25 mm for skin product absorption.

       

  You can use all your roller sizes at the same time but they have to be used on different skin areas.

   

      You can roll around your eyes with 0.5 narrow and at the same time roll the back of your hands with 1.0 mm and at the same time your thigh with 1.5 mm for example.

      Nevertheless, if you roll an extensive area with 1.5 mm, I would recommend you to wait until it heals before you roll another extensive area so that you do not put too much strain on the body in one go. Skin regeneration requires a substantial supply of vitamins, an immune response etc.

    Needling with long needles causes micro-injuries and there is a risk of infection.

   

  That's why it is better to do one part at a time, wait until it heals and then do another part.

>P.S. Can the 1.5 mm for my thighs be used more often than every 5 weeks?

       

 If you roll densely and vigorously I would not roll more often than once in 3-4 weeks with the 1.5 mm. Collagen production is a very slow process. You should wait until the first stages of collagen production are completed and then roll again. Otherwise you risk making matters worse instead of better.

79
> And, I have a couple of questions:  May I use a liquid make-up with

  > titanium oxide 2-3 days after rolling, or would I risk absorbing

  > titanium.

 

    If you roll with 1.5 mm and do this quite vigorously then I would recommend

you to roll on Friday evening and put makeup on Monday morning for work.

This to avoid interfering with the healing process, not because the Titanium oxide is a threat.

Metallic Titanium might be risky in/on open skin, hence our article with reference to a study that

shows such risk, and our recommendation not to use dermarollers with (alleged..) Titanium needles.

However, Titanium oxide has been proven to be totally inert and harmless.

 

    >Next question: How long after I "single needle" a test scar will I know

>if I am healing in the correct manner, or am having abnormal healing?

 

  When the redness is gone and the skin look healed then you basically know

  you heal well. I cannot tell you exactly how many days the healing process

  takes because it depends how deep and dense you go with the needle.

  Anything between two and ten days.

 

  Abnormal healing is a very rare condition when even a minor injury heals in

  the form of hyperthropic scar or a keloid scar.

 

  While most people never form keloids, others develop them after minor

  injuries, even insect bites or pimples.  That condition is very rare and if

  you have it you would likely already be aware of it.

80
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Infadolan experience thread
« on: February 07, 2010, 10:43:28 AM »
We started to receive some positive feedback on our "special" vitamin A & D ointment Infadolan. (Read about Infadolan's ingredients in our web store). I tried to find another one that mentioned how there was absolutely no irritation but instead a cool, soothing feeling, but I couldn't find it in my inbox any more.

   Hi Sarah,

 

  I received my Dermaroller in January and have used it once.  I'm looking forward to seeing results, with continued use and time.

 

  I had to write to you today, to share a big *WOW* about something unexpected - the Infadolan cream. After just one use, I noticed that my undereye lines and creases were markedly improved.  

 

  I'm in my early 40s with fair and very dry skin.  I think my skin is in good condition overall.  (Eye lines and crosshatched skin when smiling are the only trouble spots.)  I've never found a product that works half as well as the Infadolan. Now I used it at night on a regular basis and each morning I awaken to smooth, youthful skin in the undereye area.

 

  Thank you so much for this unexpected discovery.

 

  PS - I'm very happy with the Dermaroller, too.  :)

   That's great to hear!

  You should benefit from the vit. A at the very least.

  Do you run into issues with greasiness?





    >It is greasy, but I don't use much and I only apply it at night, so it is not a problem.  And when I weigh the greasiness against the positive effects, it is so worth using!!  

>In the states, emu oil is all the rage.  I tried it last year and it was at least as oil as the Infadolan.  Emu didn't seem to sink into my skin, though, and I didn't notice

>any improvement from it.

>I hadn't expected the Infadolan to make any visible difference.  I checked some of the skincare forums on the web (which is how I found you) and none of them had any comments

>like what I have experienced.  

>I'm going to have my mom use it next.  : )

>Thanks again from a very grateful customer.

H.B. from the UK emailed us this on March 11, 2010:

>p.s.

   >I was very impressed with the infadolan ointment, and your sensible consiseration of an alchohol/irritant/paraben free ointment.

>I previously had dermaroller treatment from a professional who gave me Chiroxy cream to apply afterwards.

>This left my skin dry/irritated and peeling.  The infadolan is soothing and I had no peeling at all after my second dermaroll.

81
>I am interested in derma rolling and have read that titanium needles are better than surgical steel.

>What validity does this argument hold?



Although Titanium implants are considered safe, we at the moment advise against using dermarollers with Titanium needles because there is some concern that metallic Titanium, when it gets into the bloodstream or disperses into tissue, can cause cancer:

http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc24.htm#PartNumber:6

Furst (1971) reported that titanium metal (pure powder of at

least 200 mesh) injected intramuscularly in 6 monthly doses, each

of 6 mg in 0.2 ml trioctanoin, induced 2 fibrosarcomas in 25 male

and 25 female Fisher-344 inbred rats and lymphosarcomas in 3 out of

25 males. Fibrosarcomas or lymphomas were not seen in the controls

given trioctanoin alone.


(3 in 25 is 12 in 100, meaning that 12% of lab rats developed cancer after having been exposed to Titanium metal in the second experiment, and 8% in the first experiment. Zero rats in the control group developed cancer.) Noone knows what the effect is of creating thousands of holes in the lower skin layers and "rubbing" Titanium into them.

You have to understand that dermaroller needles get blunt because the metal of their tips disappears deep into the skin. That is the actual process of blunting. The tips are "dissolved" and "chafed" by the skin. Seen the aforementioned study and the relatively large percentage of rats that ended up with tumors, we can not assume that monthly rolling with Titanium needles is safe. This research creates cause to suspect a long-term risk of skin cancer, using Titanium needles. There is even a greater risk in case of dermarolling as opposed to the rat experiment: With dermarolling, you are puncturing many cells, sometimes reaching the cell nucleus where the DNA resides. If finely-dispersed metallic Titanium indeed is carcinogenic as the research suggests, then you do NOT want small Titanium particles reaching skin cell DNA.

Another thing: There do not exist "home-rolling" dermarollers with Titanium needles.

Beware: The Medik8 roller, for example, has brass needles, not "gold-plated Titanium"..



I know it sounds biased, but I say it anyway: This Medik8 roller is in fact the absolute cheapest roller on the market - you can compare its plastic handle with that of the rollers that are for sale for less than ten dollars from eBay - which are absolute rubbish, they often have bent needles straight from the factory and in that case tear up the skin - you can be lucky and get one from a good batch, but they blunt quickly and have a whole lot of other problems such as a bending handle, making it impossible to exercise proper pressure. Bent needles are a huge problem with the cheaper rollers. If they aren't bent from the box, they'll bend later, due to the quality of the steel. I never make disparaging remarks about competing products - except when I am asked to comment, and when it is clear to us that the product is being deliberately misrepresented by its vendor.

There exist rollers with gold-plated Titanium needles, but those rollers cost a fortune (hundreds of dollars each) and are intended to be used on multiple patients and therefore they can be sterilized in an autoclave (using very high temperatures) and have an all-metal construction. Meaning that the roller that has the needles embedded, as well as the handle it is attached to, are made of metal, not some cheap injection-molded plastic. Such rollers are very heavy and are only used by licenced medical professionals (usually plastic surgeons) in expensive private beauty clinics. And these rollers have needle lengths of around 3 mm and turn the face into a bloody mess of minced meat. These rollers do exist, but not in the home-rolling market.

82
> I had an injection which contained restylane and this supposed to even

  > out my lip on a temporary basis.

  > I had this procedure done twice and the product has all gone.

  > Unfortunately, it has left a small scar tissue at the same spot on my

  > upper lip which is raised and little bumpy.

 

    It is very difficult to determine what caused the bumpiness.  Whether it is the result of a badly healed injection or whether some "granulation" formed under you skin as a reaction to the Restylane. I have heard that some people who had Sculptra injected, ended up with bumpy granules that formed under the skin which had to be surgically removed.

 

  Patient question on a forum:

 

  "I would appreciate some feedback about the reports of "granules" forming in patients treated with Sculptra. On this site, there have been posts of people developing granules years after having been treated. Why do these granules form and how likely do they occur?"

 

      Answer by Tanveer Janjua, MD - Bedminster Facial Plastic Surgeon:

 

  This facial plastic surgeon is a member of the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery (AAFPRS):

 

    "It is a known complication of Sculptra. It was more common in the past when the material was not diluted enough and patients did not do any massage. Sculptra stimulates growth of your own collagen. If too much is deposited in one area, you have a lot of collagen concentrated in one area, which can feel like a lump, granuloma, nodule or granule."

 

  Please do not get me wrong. I am not sure whether this can happen with Restylan as well. Restylan and Sculptra are not the same. I just wanted to explain that I can't be sure what caused your bumpiness.

   

      If indeed granules were formed in the skin, then the needling cannot fix that. If the bumpiness is just scarred skin - the results of bad healing - then needling could help.

 

    > I was wondering if using a dermaroller or single needle will gradually

  > help to even out that part of the lip??

 

    The single needle would be a better choice in this case because you can target the scar and leave out the surrounding tissue.

 

  Start very carefully with just a few pricks in the scar and you will see how it heals. In your case, since maybe your Restylane injection healed badly, I would be very careful because if you are a "bad healer", you might make the scar look worse if you overdo it and heal badly.

 

  You have to experiment and start with just a couple of pricks. If the healing goes OK, then next time do more pricks.

 

  Prick the scar at most once a month.

 

  Read our instructions :

  http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

 

 

>is there an alternative to vit-c ascorbic acid to help promote collogen?

 

  Vit. C is absolutely essential for collagen production.  You cannot achieve high levels of vit. C in the skin with oral intake alone. You have to apply it externally to your skin as explained in our instructions.  To apply it externally, it has to have a low pH.

 

L-Ascorbic acid is the only form of vitamin C that is absorbed and used effectively by the skin. "Acid-free" vit. C is useless for skin absorbtion purposes - you have to use pure, acid vit. C crystals mixed with nothing else and the optimal concentration is 10% by weight. Use the vit. C serum according to our dermarolling instructions.


83
> Because, at the ripe old age of 62, I still tend to get clogged pores

  > easily, I want to know if any of the substances I will be applying to

  > my face are comedogenic.  I use an alcohol and emollient combination

  > foam, called Alcare Plus, and Lerosett, a rasul clay product, on any

  > small pimples I feel forming.  How long before, and after, I roll,

  > might I use those products, if necessary?

   

Infadolan contains:  

  Retinoli acetas 48 000 IU in 30 g

  Ergocalciferolum 9 000 IU in 30 g

  The ointment base: white wax, natural lanoline, white vaseline

   

  Infadolan is not a cream, it is an ointment. Both vit. A and D are fat-soluble and that's why Infadolan is an excellent carrier for those vitamins but it is bit too oily for everyday use or if prone to clogged pores.

   

  Infadolan is a medical grade regenerative ointment that is indicated to regenerate mild skin trauma - such as first degree burns etc. It is excellent to use after needling with long needles (1 or 1.5 mm) because such needling causes a mild skin inflammation (that will trigger new collagen production) but the skin is slightly "traumatized" and needs to regenerate.

   

  Infadolan will supply vit. A and D and it will protect your skin after needling.

   

  Since you are prone to clogged pores, you should only use Infadolan just after rolling with long needles (1.0 or 1.5 mm) and 2-3 days afterwards.  Use very little.

   

  Homemade vit. C serum should not be comedogenic at all as far as I know.

   

  You can use any product before you roll. After rolling with long needles, do not use anything that dries out the skin or too harsh a cleanser. A mild cleansing product is best.

   

  Make sure your cleansing products are not contaminated with bacteria. If you are not sure - buy new ones!

   

  > Also, I regularly swim in a chlorinated pool- how long before, and after,

  > I roll, might I be able to resume swimming?

   

  If you roll with long needles such as 1 or 1.5 mm then I would avoid getting the face into heavily chlorinated water for at least 3 days. Avoiding the sun is a must as well.

84
>I have been reading about dermarolling lately and I am very interested in your

>products.You have great info and you seem very knowledgeable and trustworthy.


>I am about 14 kilos overweight and i have cellulite and loads of stretch

>marks-first ones during puberty and recent ones(2 years ago)from pregnancy.My

>deepest and widest are on my abdomen and inner thighs,some of which are still

>red and the rest are white but look quite indented.


  >I am planning to start using the 0.2 with your A+D ointment

 

  You can use Infadolan with 0.2 but Infadolan is not a cream, it is an ointment so it might be bit oily for everyday use (unless you use just a little) Both vit. A and D are fat-soluble and that's why Infadolan is an excellent carrier for those vitamins.

 

  Infadolan is a medical-grade regenerative ointment that is indicated to regenerate mild skin trauma - such as first degree burns etc. It is excellent to use after needling with long needles (1.0 mm or 1.5 mm) because such needling causes mild skin inflammation (triggering new collagen production) but the skin is slightly "traumatized" and needs to regenerate.

 

  You should certainly make the homemade vit. C serum as described in our instructions:

 

  http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

 

  ..and put it on your skin every second or third day. That is very important.

  You can put it on your skin after 0.2 mm needling provided it doesn't burn your skin (depends on how concentrated you made it). It will tingle though.

 

  >can I roll every day with the 0.2?do I have to sterilize it each time?

 

  You can roll every day but it is not necessary. The only purpose of the 0.2 mm roller is to enhance the penetration of your skin care products.  You don't have to do it every day.

 

  I recommend rolling about 3 times a week with 0.2. And your roller will last longer if you do not roll every day.

 

    You do not have to sterilize the 0.2 every time but you have to wash it in dishwashing liquid and water. Once in a while you can submerge it in alcohol for 20 min.

 

  >i plan to lose weight.will the 0.2 help in preventing new stretch marks?

 

  Nobody can answer this question.  Nobody knows how to reliably prevent the formation of stretchmarks.

 

  But we know that quick up or down changes in weight often trigger stretchmarks and that's why you should try to lose weight slowly and take great care to stabilize your weight. Concerning the stretchmarks - it is safer to be slightly overweight and stable than have large weight fluctuations - the well-known jojo effect.

 

  >my skin looks so thin and transparent(my veins are so visible)will the

  >1.00 be OK to use?I don't intend to use numbing creams,I  am afraid of them

 

  You can numb with an (improvised) ice pack.

  You will see how it goes with the 1.0 mm.  You will get some occasional pinpoint bleeding.

 

  If you do not see any pinpoint bleeding, not even occasionally, you should opt for the 1.5 mm. The skin on the abdomen and thigh is quite thick and the stretchmarks are deep cracks in the skin. Don't roll over varicose veins.

 

  >does infadolan contain parabens or other dangerous preservatives?

 

  The active ingredients in Infadolan are:

   

  Retinol acetate: 48 000 IU in 30 g

 

  Vit. D2: 9 000 IU in 30 g

 

  The ointment base is White wax, natural lanoline, white vaseline.

 

  >I live in greece.you ship here,right?

 

  Yes we do :)

85
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Single-needling depressed facial scars
« on: January 26, 2010, 06:09:07 PM »
> I have three depressed facial scars I want to needle with a single

    > needle.  My dermaroller just does not go  down into the scar where it

> needs to go to be effective.  How deep should I go?

> I was thinking 1.5mm deep.  What do you think?  Any advice?

   

  Individual depressed scars are an ideal target for treatment with the single needle.

  I advise you to start with about 1 mm deep pricks and you see how it goes. Next time you can go deeper. Prick the scar from various angles. Pinpoint bleeding is OK. If you get some pinpoint bleeding it means you are in the dermis layer of the skin and that is your target. Pinpoint bleeding is the limit. Do not go deeper.

   

  Don't prick more frequently than once every month (the same scar) and be patient.

   

  You will not see any change after just one or two months.

   

  To fill the indented scar, a lot of collagen is needed and it will take a long time to achieve it but it is possible.

86
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Why are we cheaper than Dr. Roller?
« on: January 25, 2010, 08:41:19 AM »
> One last (obvious) question, why are your rollers so much cheaper than dr roller? Are they

> sterilized? Comparable to Dr Roller?


Certainly our rollers are sterilized (Gamma sterilization) and they come in hermetically sealed plastic bags. The roller head is covered with foam to protect the needles, and the roller itself comes in a very sturdy case, so strong that you can actually stand on it without damaging the roller.

After production, the rollers are subjected to quality control. We know for a fact that this quality control is real and not an empty promise and we depend on it, because the last thing we want is to get sued by people that receive a roller with bent needles that tear up their skin!

I can tell you how and why we decided to sell the roller we currently sell. We decided to start selling rollers because it is an exciting, scientifically proven-to-work method of greatly improving all kinds of skin problems. The only problem was, there are so many rollers out there, which one to choose? Our goal was to find the cheapest roller that was 100% good in every possible way. So we purchased quite a few rollers to test, including Dr. Roller's dermaroller, and you can read what we found here:

http://www.owndoc.com/dermarolling/dermaroller-review/

Basically, there are four kinds of business philosophies in the "roller world":




  • Sell the absolute worst rollers for the absolute lowest price and try to get rich shifting a large volume. Some online offers that seem "too good to be true" are in that category.


  • Sell mediocre rollers at a very large premium, using heavily search-optimized and forum-spammed sites with lots of fake testimonials and other dodgy tricks.  Derma-rollers.com are in that category.


  • Sell good rollers for a ridiculously high price, by claiming that your roller is "The only genuine original and others are dangerous". That way, you can afford expensive advertizing campaigns and a Mercedes for the CEO. Dr. Roller is in that category. Dr. Roller's dermaroller is a SE Asian "copy" of the Original Dermaroller™, patented by the Swiss Dermaroller S.a.r.l.


  • Sell good rollers for a normal markup, and provide well-researched user instructions and solid after-care by email and forums. We are in that category. Our roller also is a similar copy of the Original Dermaroller™, patented by the Swiss Dermaroller S.a.r.l.




The Original Dermaroller™ however is not sold to private individuals, as there exist a fifth business model:




  • Patent the Dermaroller™ and only sell to Western clinics that you personally visit to sell the idea to them and intimidate them a little, so that you can charge a very high price, and when they refuse and use a SE Asian copy, you can easily sue them and win, and they know that, so they'll use yours. Dermaroller™ S.a.r.l. is in that category.


"Our" dermaroller (a Dr. Roller clone) has been tested on my own skin, the needles are made of surgical steel, the handle doesn't bend and is ergonomical, and the roller stands up to being cleaned in hot water and alcohol. If we ever find a better roller for a similarly honest price, we'll switch to that one, so let us know when you found something better :).


87
> I'm in the US (NYC) and am thinking of buying some dermarollers from you.

> I read somewhere that you said zinc should not be used on skin when

> dermarolling. I use this for my daily sunscreen since i don't use

> chemicals on my skin. Do you suggest an alternative?

               If you roll with long needles such as 1.5 mm you should completely avoid

        exposing your skin to the sun for at least 2 days after the rolling (just like in the majority of laser treatments). You must wear a hat and use a high-factor sunscreen if you go outside.

        It's alright to put Zinc oxide sunblock on but not immediately after dermarolling. Applying it the day after is OK.

(However it is much better to use any sunscreen including a zinc oxide-based one right after dermarolling than going outside unprotected from the sun - you could end up with hyper pigmentation. To offset the drying effect of zinc, just apply some cream to keep the skin moisturized and put the Zinc-based sun block on top).

   

        Dermarolling triggers collagen production but rolling also temporarily compromises the protective skin barriers and the sun is very bad for your recovering skin at that vulnerable stage.

                        Zinc oxide dehydrates the skin. Zinc oxide is a mild astringent. An astringent is a substance that shrinks and constricts body tissues.

  Zinc oxide acts as a skin-drying agent and can act as a skin anti-inflammatory. Astringents cause mild coagulation of skin proteins and that causes the skin to dry up.

     Zinc's "drying" properties are very beneficial in treating diaper rash, oily skin with acne or any other skin condition where drying the skin is desirable. After dermarolling though, the "open" skin should be kept as moisturized as possible and that's why substances with astringent and dessicating (drying) properties are not suitable.

 

Additionally, Zinc has a mild anti-inflammatory effect and optimal collagen induction and elastin formation is achieved after the mild inflammation that rolling causes. that's the reason we roll: To cause a controlled inflammation.

   
Zinc oxide or titanium dioxide are excellent physical sun  blocks. It works by covering the epidermis and reflecting the UV rays.



                  Another reason why you should stay away from your skin the first days is the risk of bacterial contamination.  If your sunblock has been used for a while and it is not in the tube, its probably already contaminated by your hands etc. If your skin is intact it doesn't matter but you should be careful when the skin protective barrier is compromised and you should only use tubes - not jars - where the risk of contamination is very low. That's why we chose Infadolan, which  is a medical grade regenerative ointment indicated for first degree burns.

> Second, I am going to buy some home rollers regardless of the answer to

> this question, but do you suggest getting an in-office treatment with a

> dermatologist before starting a home program or will the home program

> give results?

Nobody can guarantee results, also not of any in-office treatment.

        There are people that underwent several in-office dermarolling sessions for their acne scars and they got disappointing results and there are people who roll themselves at home and they got good results. It depends on so many factors that we can safely say that a well-informed home-roller can get better results than a mediocre clinic can. Clinics are under time pressure and are there in the first place to make money (= getting you to return as often and as long as possible).

    You can try to roll yourself and if you get no results, try in-office treatment. Either way, it is unrealistic to expect results too soon.

88
Dermarolling / Microneedling / Warning about rolling frequency
« on: January 24, 2010, 05:59:27 PM »
Derma-rollers.com gives extremely bad advice - they recommend rolling three times a week with a 1.5 mm ("Scientia") roller. This will do more damage than good because it will keep your skin in a state of permanent inflammation. Other sites even advise to roll 5 times a week with a 1.5 mm roller.

Their "endorsements" and "reviews" are hysterically positive and full of obvious untruths (stretchmarks virtually disappearing after one week, etc.) and do not appear genuine at all, but the main thing is that they make our advice look wrong, while they're giving dermarolling a bad name by doing harm to their customers.

They're a SE Asian company and surely won't be held accountable for damages. Judging from the way they set up their site (extremely search engine optimized and very commercial), they have more knowledge of commerce than of micro-needling. Feel free to buy their rollers, but do not use a 1.5 mm roller more than once every three weeks.

Please consider that if we would prioritize our sales volume over our customer's skin health, that we would also recommend multiple rollings a week with a 1.5 mm roller, as the roller will blunt 25 times faster and we would thus sell 25 times more rollers. 5 x a week vs. 1 x per 5 weeks is twenty-five times more profit.


If you roll three times a week with a 1.5 mm roller, your "results" will be due to a state of permanent swelling. When rolling with needles longer than 0.5 mm, rolling more frequently is certainly not better than rolling less frequently, on the contrary!

> Finally, Dr Philip Miller says you can dermaroller several times

> per week (5 or so) -- i saw your site recommended every 3-4 weeks (for the

> 1.5mm) --- why the discrepancy? I have many problems to solve and would

> like to dermaroll as much as is most quickly effective....

  Collagen production is a very slow and long process. There are several complex, intermediary stages in collagen production. Collagen formation goes though long intermediate phases from Collagen III and finally Collagen I. When you roll your skin with any needles that reach the dermis, collagen production can certainly not be completed in three days. It hardly even has started after three days. Its actually not even completed in five weeks but at least the first stages are completed. You should not roll before the skin is completely healed from the previous rolling. If you roll every three days with long needles (such as 1.5 mm), your skin will be in a state of permanent inflammation and swelling. It will look great because your wrinkles will be less visible due to that swelling but don't confuse this effect with permanent results!

Its a deceiving, short-term "trick" and being in a permanent state of inflammation will damage your skin in the long term.

Permanent inflammation is not a good idea at all. There is no reason to disturb the formation of new collagen that is not even remotely completed by pricking the skin again and again before the damage of the previous rolling is healed and collagen production completed.  You can roll several times a week with short needles (0.2 or 0.5).

More info on what the inflammation stage is all about and how long it lasts


89
> What size dermaroller would you recommend I purchase to roll my turkey

    > neck area.  I'm a 51 year old female, and wasn't sure if I should order the

    > 1.5mm or 1mm needle length.

     

        A dermaroller cannot fix significantly sagging skin, but itr can improve the skin texture and mild skin laxity. However, if there is serious excess skin on your neck, then you need a necklift.

   

If your skin is only mildly lax then use a 1 mm dermaroller (every two weeks) and apply some tightening creams right after rolling. Dermarolling highly enhances the absorption of any skin products, so that should be a good combo.

    You should also apply a homemade vit. C serum on your neck. Read our detailed instructions on how to make it and how to roll:

   

  http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

   

    If rolling is too painful for you, you can numb it with an icepack or buy a numbing cream such as EMLA. We sell EMLA or you can buy it OTC.

   

                Pricking the skin with needles will trigger your own collagen production and that collagen will stay. Contrary to fillers such as Restylane that people get injected by a doctor to fill their wrinkles. Those fillers have an immediate effect but our body slowly eliminates them  - that's why they have to be re-injected all the time. If you manage to produce your own collagen by dermarolling, it will stay.

   

        If you get some "hollow" places on your face caused by receding fat - as we age we are losing fat from our skin - a dermaroller cannot fix it. Then you really need some fillers to be injected to the hollow areas where the fat has gone missing - such as under the eyes.

90
> My entire face is has very small scars or lines (not wrinkles) from acne

  > scarring and small scars from cuts.  It is hard to decide how to roll for

  > the entire face.  I just go in one direction at a time for the whole face.

  > Should I do a little area at a time instead?

 

 

                It doesn't really matter. You should roll in a way that it is comfortable to you. If you can take the pain of rolling your entire face then roll your entire face. The problem with acne scars is that they are usually quite deep and that's why you have to use long needles and go deep. It will take a long time to achieve results.

   

        Another problem that can occur with dermarolling scars is that it exposes some semi-hidden acne scars that were below the skin and they were not so visible because there was a small skin layer covering them. But the scar was there and the skin was uneven.

   

          Dermarolling uncovered those hidden scars because the dermaroller exposed the scar underneath. Lots of people report that their acne-scarred skin actually looked worse after several initial rollings because all those "hidden" scars were exposed. But that was the first step to improve the scars. Later their scars improved significantly by dermarolling, especially when vit. A was applied.

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