Messages

541

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: Doc claims homemade vit c serum won't work?!

« on: January 08, 2013, 03:33:56 PM »

He may just be misinformed. Remember - our advice is based on rigorous examination of the relevant medical literature. (A lot of recent forum postings here are basically: "Is it really true what you say about your product <x>?" and such questions are in fact off-topic on this forum). I can't spend too much time debunking whatever people claim, but of course I make mistakes too.

The table I have posted here (with a link to the entire study it is published in):

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/should-vitamin-c-diy-serum-be-at-20-concentration/

..shows the tissue levels of ascorbic acid in the skin after the topical application of ascorbic acid. The tissue levels greatly increased so it did penetrate. They mentioned that "ascorbic acid must be formulated at pH levels less than 3.5 to enter the skin".

You can see in the data sheet about ascorbic acid in the link below that:

- A 5% solution in water has a pH of 2.2- 2.5.
- A solution of ascorbic acid in sodium hydroxide, sodium carbonate, or sodium bicarbonate has a pH of 5.5-7.0.

Source:
 
https://http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/ascorbic.htm#DivisionTitle:3.3.1.3%20%20Description

That is why we say in our instructions that for topical application, use pure vit. C crystals and not to use vit. C in tablets or the effervescent forms because they are usually mixed with sodium bicarbonate to enhance oral absorption and to make it less acidic. For topical application, use pure crystals of ascorbic acid and it will definitely penetrate.

Topical L-ascorbic acid: percutaneous absorption studies

Pinnell SR, Yang H, Omar M, Monteiro-Riviere N, DeBuys HV, Walker LC, Wang Y, Levine M.
Duke University Medical Center, Department of Medicine, Durham, North Carolina 27707, USA.

RESULTS: L-ascorbic acid must be formulated at pH levels less than 3.5 to enter the skin. Maximal concentration for optimal percutaneous absorption was 20%. Tissue levels were saturated after three daily applications; the half-life of tissue disappearance was about 4 days. Derivatives of ascorbic acid including magnesium ascorbyl phosphate, ascorbyl-6-palmitate, and dehydroascorbic acid did not increase skin levels of L-ascorbic acid.

https://http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11207686

BTW, a half-life of four days means that the amount of vit. C present in the skin will halve every 4 days.

A lot of disinformation is spread about ascorbic acid because as I explained in the link below, you absolutely must make the solution (diluting the crystals in water) yourself at home and not buy a prepared product. Selling plain vit. C powder or crystals is not very profitable, so the myriads of expensive vit. C products out there would have little future when the truth would be known.

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/add-glycerin-into-my-diy-vitamin-c

Last but not least, there are many medical studies where specific skin conditions improved after the topical application of ascorbic acid, thus it must have penetrated the skin.

542

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: DermaStamp Vs Single Needle

« on: January 08, 2013, 03:23:49 PM »

A dermastamp comes in more needle lengths and the single needle is more time consuming but more precise, and you can precicely decide exactly where to use how many pricks.. For stubborn scars and stretch marks, using both in one session is worth trying. Larger areas are very time consuming to treat with a signel needle.

543

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: Question about many stretch marks and scars

« on: January 08, 2013, 12:10:11 PM »

@Hope 13

Thank you for mentioning your improvements.  Stretch marks are in fact very deep scars, they are basically stretched cracks in the skin and the cracks are filled with scar tissue. Any improvement, even a small one is a big victory.

544

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: What would be a maintenance regime after the first 18 months?

« on: January 08, 2013, 11:58:17 AM »

Reducing the frequency of your current regime. Switching to any other maintenance routine that you have time and energy for.

545

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: Products after dermarolling

« on: January 08, 2013, 11:57:35 AM »

Medium pressure is what you should apply. Do not do more than that. The peeling is not always clearly visible on the skin and not everybody reacts the same to tretinoin.

546

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: Products after dermarolling

« on: January 06, 2013, 03:30:30 PM »

Retin A contains retinoic acid (it is also called tretinoin), which is acidic and if you apply it right after dermarolling, it will sting and the skin will likely get very irritated. Retinoic acid is basically a mild acid peel and dermarolling greatly enhances the penetration of any products applied after microneedling.

In case of stretch marks, surgical- and other scars with hardened collagen bundles and in case of stubborn acne scars, I do recommend applying it straight away.

547

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: What would be a maintenance regime after the first 18 months?

« on: January 06, 2013, 03:25:18 PM »

No, you do not have to keep the schedule indefinitely, neither is the skin going to improve indefinitely. The point where the skin stops improving is individual. Some get almost miraculous improvements after microneedling and some get no improvements at all. Also, microneedling does not improve 100% of skin conditions in 100% of cases. The wrinkles above my upper lip and the wrinkles in between my eyebrows improved tremendously after microneedling, whereas my crow's feet have not responded at all.

When you achieve satisfactory improvement, move to a maintenance schedule. From my experience, wrinkles never completely disappear after microneedling; they just significantly filled in and got less visible.

Concerning hyperpigmentation, the main thing is to avoid sun exposure and protect the skin with a sunscreen as much as you can, otherwise it will surely come back.

Microneedling cannot stop aging and the skin will continue to age, including wrinkle formation but microneedling results are usually long lasting.

548

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: Add glycerin into my DIY vitamin c

« on: January 06, 2013, 06:09:12 AM »

to help prevent sun damage, it is more important to apply a lower concentration it regularly instead of a high concentration occasionally. (vit. C helps prevent sun damage.) Use any concentration up to 20% if your skin can handle it. The higher the concentration, the more benefits, with the optimal skin concentration reached at 20%.

84.2% of patients subjectively evaluated their results as improvement (of various levels) in a questionnaire.

"Patient self-appraisal questionnaires rated the degree of improvement (much improved, improved, slightly improved, no change, or worse"

60% of patients had significant results assessed objectively by these methods:

"Standard photographs were taken at baseline, including anteroposterior and left and right oblique views to facilitate subsequent clinical evaluations, and at the end of therapy for comparison. Optical profilometry analysis was performed on the skin surface replicas of the lateral canthal (crow's feet) region, comparing baseline to end-of-study specimens. Using this computer-based system, the resulting image was digitally analyzed, and numeric values were assigned to reflect surface features. The parameters obtained included Rz, Ra, and shadows. These values provided objective data that document pretreatment and posttreatment texture changes proportional to the degree of wrinkling, roughness, and other surface irregularities."

549

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: Once dermarolling do i need to always apply sunscreen?

« on: January 06, 2013, 06:06:52 AM »

Excessive sun exposure is the main reason of skin aging and you should protect your face with or without dermarolling.

If you are not prone to acne, have no hyperpigmentation or stretch marks or stubborn acne scars, there is no reason for using the A-Ret cream.

Vit. C application doesn’t make the skin more prone to sunburn so you do not have to use a sunscreen.  If you apply vit. C in the evening, wash it off in the morning.

IMPORTANT:

Do not completely shelter yourself from the sun. Sunshine is our most efficient source of vit. D, which forms in the skin upon sun exposure.

Vit. D is very important for many reasons, including the proper functioning of our immune system - crucial to remain healthy.

Do not excessively sunbathe but every now and then, expose yourself for about 15 minutes to the sun with lots of exposed skin to get enough vit. D.

If you have dark skin, you need to stay about three times longer in the sun as dark skin functions as a natural sun protection.

Consider vit. D supplementation during the winter months.

550

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: Betadine then numbing cream?

« on: January 06, 2013, 06:05:10 AM »

Yes, first Betadine and then a numbing cream. You can also wash off the numbing cream with tap water (and a cotton pad). I will change it in our instructions.

I paste here what I wrote in another thread. Perhaps it is interesting for you:

Disinfecting the dermaneedling instrument after dermarolling is more
important than disinfecting the skin before dermarolling. Of prime
importance is to clean the instrument after dermaneedling with dishwashing
detergent and warm water (not boiling water) and rinsing it under a strong
stream of water to remove blood and skin detrius from the needles. Then soak
it in Chloramine-T or Ethanol.  This prevents the formation of potentially
harmful bacteria while the instrument is not used. The bacteria on your skin
are much less dangerous that what can form when you don't clean a
dermaneedling instrument.

Basically, if you do not clean a dermaroller, what forms on the roller head
and needles are the same bacteria as that in a rotting corpse. Whereas the
bacteria on the skin are totally different bacteria, it's more of a stabile
ecosystem of probiotic bacteria, a protective layer of beneficial bacteria
on your skin, a great majority of beneficial bacteria that prevent bad
bacteria and harmful fungi from getting a foothold.

Your immune system has plenty of antibodies against the bacteria on your
skin, aquired whenever you cut or chafed yourself.  The same goes for active
acne. Every time you squeeze a pimple, some bacteria enter your bloodstream
and you make antibodies against them. Therefore, even if you "roll in" a lot
of bacteria from your skin, there is only a very tiny chance that an
infection can result.

So the main thing is to clean your roller after use with water and
dishwashing liquid, to get rid of the "big chunks" (only visible under a
microscope though) of skin detrius and body oils. That would in principle
already be sufficient, but just to be totally on the safe side we also
disinfect the roller in Ethanol. If you want to be absolutely sure that your
roller is totally sterile like an operating scalpel straight from its
packaging in a hospital, then instead of Ethanol, use our Chloramine-T.
Chloramine-T kills bacteria like antibiotics do. Chloramine-T has in fact a
double antibiotic mechanism of action. And it is cheaper than alcohol as
well - from us at least.

Finally, I want to say that we had tens of thousands of customers over the
past years and that we never heard of anyone getting an infection - ever.
And that's because of what I already explained: "Rolling in" the bacteria on
your own skin is in fact quite safe. And simply cleaning the roller well
with water and a soapy substance is also sufficient, in practice. That means
that disinfecting the skin and roller is actually overkill, and hence nobody
ever reported an infection.

Anyone who still is worried about infections should soak the instrument
overnight in a Chloramine-T solution and the result is total sterilization.

551

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: These Stretch Marks are ruining my life

« on: January 06, 2013, 06:04:02 AM »

The most effective for stretch marks is the combination of a regular 1.5 mm dermaroller + a 1.5 mm dermastamp + Tretinoin cream. Follow the routine described here:

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Stretch-Marks-individual-needling

If your stretch marks are really deep, use 2 mm needles instead of 1.5 mm.

What to expect:

https://http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/dermarolling-microneedling-hype-realistic-results/

Because I was inundated with emails on how stretch marks ruined people's life, I wrote this article:

https://http://owndoc.com/stretchmarks/psychological-aspects-of-stretch-marks-and-the-beauty-cult/

552

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: Should vitamin c diy serum be at 20% concentration

« on: January 06, 2013, 05:51:02 AM »

The tissue levels were maximal at 20% concentration but the tissue levels are significant at 5% as well and this concentration is less irritating and less sticky. Also, to help prevent sun damage, it is more important to apply a lower concentration  regularly instead of a high concentration occasionally. (vit. C helps prevent sun damage.) Use any concentration up to 20% if your skin can handle it. The higher the concentration, the more benefits, with the optimal skin concentration reached at 20%. But 5% still is very good.
 
There is a sentence in our dermarolling instructions:

"If the vit. C serum is too irritating to your skin, add more water. If your skin shows no irritation you can add more vit. C powder to your container."

Attachment from https://http://www.owndoc.com/pdf/vit-c-percutaneous-absorption.pdf

553

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: Question about many stretch marks and scars

« on: January 04, 2013, 04:03:35 PM »

It is not required to use the single needles. Keep going with your dermastamp. A dermastamp is very effective. You do not have to stamp your entire face in one session. Stamp one cheek, when it heals, stamp the other etc.

Yes, you can use emu oil. (BTW there is no need applying thick layers of Infadolan, apply just a little to protect the skin).

Tretinoin cream (we sell it) was found to help stretch marks. You will find a link here to the studies about Tretinoin:

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Stretch-Marks-individual-needling

The one-liner roller is not suitable for acne scars or chicken pox scars or any small scars. It is suitable for long stretch marks but it would be even better to use a 1.5 mm regular roller on the entire area and then a 1.5 mm dermastamp to stamp individual stretch marks. Again, you do not have to use the single needles - use a dermastamp.

554

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: Best Skin Care Routine

« on: January 04, 2013, 04:01:22 PM »

No soap needed. Wash it off with water (any temperature). You can use a cotton pad. Start rolling straight away because the numbing cream will numb the skin for about 20 minutes.

555

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Re: A-Ret cream 0.05% base cream

« on: January 04, 2013, 04:00:29 PM »

No, it does not open the skin. It is done to create ideal conditions in the skin for collagen production. Dermarolling works even if you do not pretreat the skin but it is an additional help to have ideal conditions for dermarolling.