Sarah Vaughter answers questions about OwnDoc products
Forums => Dermarolling / Microneedling => Topic started by: smalkin on February 15, 2011, 03:25:27 PM
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Hi All,
I'm new to dermarolling and the forum. I bought the .5mm and 1.5mm rollers, the copper peptide masks, vitamin C, tretinoin cream and infadolan ointment. Please, somebody, present me with a skincare regimen! I need to have an every day plan (will use .5mm roller) and a plan for "deep rolling" with the 1.5mm roller. How do I supplement with the tretinoin and Vitamin C?
Please, someone, spell it out for this novice! Many thanks...
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First of all, the more is not always the better. Do not overdo it, especially when you are still young. It also depends what you are trying to fix or achieve.
Dermarolling frequency: Twice a week with a 0.5 and once every 3-4 weeks with a 1.5 mm derma roller.
Vit.C remains in the skin for several days (it has about 4 days tissue half-life) so applying it twice or three times a week is sufficient. Do not apply it immediately after dermarolling with long needles. Vit. C (ascorbic acid) is acidic so it would sting. However if you roll with short needles for product penetration (0.5 mm or shorter) and can handle a little stinging, you can apply it right after dermarolling ( it will greatly enhance vit. C penetration), provided it doesn’t irritate your skin too much (add more water if it is irritating). Do a test patch first to find out how your skin reacts. Be careful on your face (add more water).
Apply vit. C in the evening since it is sensitive to sunlight. Wash it off in the morning.
Before rolling with a 1.5 mm dermaroller, apply vit. C for three consecutive days to achieve maximum concentration. After rolling with a 1.5 mm dermaroller, wait at least two days before restarting to apply vit. C.
A copper peptide mask can be applied after dermarolling, nevertheless some of our customers also experience stinging from the mask when applied right after rolling with a 1.5 mm dermaroller (some didn't experience stinging - neither did I) so they prefer to apply it on the days when they don't roll or apply it right after rolling with shorter needles or an hour later or so. You have to try. Do a test patch on a small area.
Do not apply vit. C and copper peptides on the same day.
Retin A ( Tretinoin= Retinoic acid) is also acidic. You should not apply it right after dermarolling. Application twice or three times a week is sufficient. (In some cases I do recommend applying it right after dermarolling - such as on individual stubborn stretch marks or scars). If you are young and you have no acne, pigmentation or scars, there is no reason to apply A-Ret on your skin. Apply it in the evening since it is sensitive to sunlight.
Infadolan is a protective, regenerative ointment with vitamins. It should be applied immediately after rolling (apply just a little). Infadolan is for dermarolling after-care and it is in general not suitable to be used as an ordinary daily cream on the entire face because it is oily. However it is very useful to apply Infadoan daily just around your eyes, on the back of your hands and on your lips.
Here are some tips pertaining the copper peptide mask (collected from several of my postings elsewhere):
"When I use a copper peptide mask, there is always some liquid left in the sachet. I close it with paper clips, put it in the fridge and use the remaining liquids later. The mask's plastic layer can be removed because it is originally intended for use on closed skin. On "open", dermarolled skin, occlusion won't be necessary for extra penetration.
There is enough liquid in the mask to serve you multiple times. Cut off a piece of the mask with scissors and smear it all over your face or other area. Put the rest of the mask back. Close it with a paper clip, the next day or some days later cut another piece off the mask and smear it again on your area. If there are liquids left in the sachet use them as well. The mask has a high concentration of copper peptides".
(The masks aren't watery anymore because we've asked the manufacturer to address that issue.The fragrance is also less.)
An example of a daily routine for acne prone, scarred, pigmented or aged/damaged skin (the routine can be altered according to your preferences):
Monday: Infadolan around the eyes and your daily cream on the face in the morning. Vit. C in the evening.
Tuesday: Infadolan around the eyes and your daily cream on the face in the morning, dermarolling with a 0.5 mm, copper peptides after dermarolling.
Wednesday: Infadolan around the eye and your daily cream on the face in the morning. A-Ret in the evening.
Thursday: Infadolan around the eyesand your daily cream on the face in the morning. Vit.C in the evening.
Friday: Infadolan around the eyes and your daily cream on the face in the morning, dermarolling with a 0.5 mm, copper peptides after dermarolling.
Saturday: Infadolan around the eyes and your daily cream on the face in the morning. A-Ret in the evening.
Sunday: Infadolan around the eyes and your daily cream on the face in the morning. Vit.C in the evening.
Once in 3-4 weeks: Vit. C for three consecutive days, dermarolling with a 1.5 mm dermaroller, Infadolan right after dermarolling and a couple of days more (if it doesn’t make you break out.)
If you skin peels too much, reduce the frequency of vit. C, A-Ret and dermarolling and apply a heavier daily cream.
Another example:
Monday: Infadolan around the eyes and your daily cream on the face in the morning. In the evening: dermarolling with a 0.2 mm dermaroller, apply vit. C immediately after (if it is too irritating, add more water to your vit. C serum).
Tuesday: Infadolan around the eyes and your daily cream on the face in the morning.
Wednesday: Infadolan around the eye and your daily cream on the face in the morning. A-Ret in the evening.
Thursday: Infadolan around the eyes and your daily cream on the face in the morning. In the evening: dermarolling with a 0.2 mm dermaroller, apply vit. C immediately after .
Friday: Infadolan around the eyes and your daily cream on the face in the morning.
Saturday: Infadolan around the eyes and your daily cream on the face in the morning. A-Ret in the evening.
Sunday: Infadolan around the eyes and your daily cream on the face in the morning. In the evening: dermarolling with a 0.2 mm dermaroller, apply vit. C immediately after.
Once in 3-4 weeks: Vit. C for three consecutive days, dermarolling with a 1.5 mm dermaroller, Infadolan right after dermarolling and a couple of days more (if it doesn’t make you break out).
If you skin peels too much, reduce the frequency of vit. C, A-Ret and dermarolling and apply a heavier daily cream.
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Sarah, you are amazing! Thanks so much for the personal attention and time you've taken to respond to my post. I look forward to using your products and learning a lot from your website! I am almost 38 years old, no acne/scarring but see fine lines and wrinkles around my eyes, between my eyes and the beginnings of nasolabial folds. I have taken pretty good care of my skin for most of my thirties, having been careless with the sun in my twenties (and I'm pretty fair) so I hope it's not too late! Again, thanks very much!
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Hi all,
I'm also new to derma rolling etc. It's great to see a routine made simple.....but
I'm confused as to when I brush my face with a toothbrush and use a .25 roller?
Advise would be much appreciated :)
Cheers
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You do not have to brush the face. It is a way of exfoliation and a good pre-treatment prior to rolling for scars and especially stretch marks but rolling the face with a 0.25 mm dermaroller already exfoliates the skin very well. No need for brushing.
You can use a 0.25 mm dermaroller every second day. Using it three times a week is totally sufficient. Instead of a 0.5 mm dermaroller in the routine above, use the 0.25 mm roller.
You can also apply vit. C, wait half an hour for it to be absorbed and then you'll roll with a 0.25 mm and apply a cream of your choice to enhance its penetration.
You do not have to use copper peptides and A-Ret and vit C and Infadolan. You can use some of it in combination with an anti aging cream or whatever cream you like. I wanted to show how you can combine our products but it doesn't mean you have to use all of them. As I said, young, acne-free facial skin does not need A-Ret. A-Ret should be used on stretch marks though, even when you are young.
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Hi Sarah,
Thanks so much for clearing that up.
My skin is looking better already from following your advise
and not using $100+ creams.
Cheers soon
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Hi Sarah
I have big request to you
I am also new at this forum and I want to start dermarolling my acne scars with 1.5 dermaroller. I've already bought dermaroller, dermastamp, vit C serum,Infadolan, A-Ret and Copper peptidy mask. Sometimes I have acne so I use 2.5% benzoyl peroxide morning and night. Can you tell me what regime I have to do, how long after 1.5 dermarolling I can not use benzoyl per.. When I can use Copper pep. mask, Retin A and all this things, like you wrote above .
Please give me advice
thanks a lot
...andy
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You should roll every 3-4 weeks with a 1.5 mm.
A-Ret: Three times a week, in the evening. Do not apply it immediately after dermarolling and a day or two after.
(If you get no results after dermarolling the scars for many months, you can start experimenting with applying the A-Ret immediately after dermarolling but apply it to the scars only. You can use a toothpick for that. Apply just a little. Do not smear it all over your face because it will sting).
Vit. C: Twice or three times a week. Apply in the evening on the days when you do not apply A-Ret. Wash it off in the morning. Do not apply immediately after dermarolling with a 1.5 mm.
Apply vit. C for three consecutive days just before dermarolling with a 1.5 mm roller/stamp to achieve maximum skin concentration.
Copper peptides - you can apply them immediately after dermarollling. Just cut a piece off the mask and smear it on your face. Wait about 30 minutes for it to absorb and apply Infadolan on top of it. Seal the open mask sachet (with a paper clip or tape) and use it until it is empty.
Infadolan - apply right after dermarolling with the 1.5 mm and for a couple of days more if it doesn't make you break out.
Benzoyl peroxide - do not apply it for at least 1 day after dermarolling with the 1.5 mm.
If you do not get results with dermarolling, consider needling the scars with our single needles. The combination of a 1.5 mm dermaroller with the single needles is successful in many stubborn cases.
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Hi Sarah
A small question, do you not put any cream on the face in the evening after vitamin C, maybe an hour later?
Cheers Liza
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Yes, you can apply any cream half an hour later or probably even sooner.
Just let the vit. C absorb before you apply a cream.
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I am currently on a weight loss journey & after many years of yo-yo dieting & child bearing, I am successfully losing weight. Yay!! But I am becoming discouraged with the empty skin I am seeing when I look in the mirror. Instead of seeing inches lost, I only see deflated skin with stretchmarks that look like I was clawed by a tiger:( I'm starting to lose my motivation which is awful bc my health should be my priority but it just really gets me down. I have a personal trainer, I eat right, I weight train, I do yoga, I drink plenty of h2o, I dry brush my skin, & I use a "firming" OTC lotion but nothing is helping & I cant afford a body lift:( Would you recommend using microneedling for tightening stretched out skin? If so what length? How often? With what products? I am only 26yrs old however I have been overweight most of my life (I don't know if that will make a difference). Thank you for any advice.
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Hi Sarah
How many times can I re-use one copper peptide mask and how long I have to apply mask after rolling ??
thanks :-)
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If you keep the opened mask in the fridge you can use it until it is empty.
Apply it every day or whatever frequency suits you until it is empty.
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I am following your suggested routine with .5 and 1.5 rollers. I apply copper peptide mask liquid after .5 and Infodolan after 1.5. I alternate Vit C and Retin-A on nonrolling nights. Somewhere in the posts I saw it mentioned that the copper peptide could be used after any size roller, so is it ok to use after 1.5 rolling? Thanks for all your help!
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If your skin can handle it, then yes. Try it on a small test patch first.
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I was under the impression copper peptides have to be used with exfoliation to be effective. Even if I don't use a derma roller every day will I still benefit from the copper peptides? What if I am rolling only a few times a week?
What about the uglies with Copper Peptides? Have you ever heard of it?
Something I have been doing is increasing the spider veins on my cheeks. Will any of the products you sell or the rolling improve them or make them worse?
Sorry if these are questions you have answered many times. I am working through this this entire forum but I am on information overload I think.
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Copper peptides can be applied with and without dermarolling. You do not have to apply them every day.
Start slowly with copper peptides. You will see how your skin reacts.
From our experience, dermarolling/stamping/needling neither improved nor worsened spider veins. You should have a vascular laser done. The laser heats up the veins and that seals them.
Several sessions are usually necessary and the spider veins may re-appear.
Theoretically, the A-Ret could make the spider veins worse, especially if overused.
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Sarah - Thanks for the daily routine suggestions. Very helpful! I am brand new to dermarolling so I had a couple of questions about diving into a new routine. First, I usually cleanse my face at night with a Clarisonic to make sure I remove all my mineral makeup. Can I still use this device now that I'm rolling? I am rolling 3 - 4 times per week with a .3mm roller. Also, my already dry skin is now flaking constantly. Is there a safe way to exfoliate? I used to do an aspirin mask/scrub a couple times per week for great exfoliation but now I'm wondering if it is even advised to roll the dead skin off in the shower using my fingertips. How aggressive can I wash and exfoliate my skin without damaging the healing process taking place from rolling?
One more thing. I've thought about adding hyaluronic acid to increase the moisture level in my skin. What are your thought on this? And what about hydroquinone for melasma? Where should that fit in?
Any advise would be greatly appreciated!
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Dermarolling triggers skin renewal and the old skin flakes off. You can exfoliate with Clarisonic but if you use it every day, it would be wise to reduce the frequency of dermarolling to prevent excessive skin flaking.
There is no problem with any kind of exfoliation while using a dermaroller but it is not really good for the skin in general (dermarolling or not) to overdo the frequency of exfoliation. Exfoliation removes the protective oily film that is normally on your skin. The skin slowly renews this, but overexfoliated skin becomes dry. Unless you have acne-prone, oily skin or you are 60+ years old, there is no reason to exfoliate every day.
If your skin is flaking, remove the flakes in the shower, then sprinkle a cotton pad with tap water and a little almond oil and clean your face with it.
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I do tend to over exfoliate. I am constantly fighting the flakies since I entered my 40's, and since I'm acne-prone those flakies are dangerous! That's why I inquired about adding hyaluronic acid to increase my skin's moisture level (see my above post). Any thoughts? I feel like I need hydroquinone, too, but I'm afraid of overdoing it with the products...
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Hyaluronic acid:
http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/can-I-use-the-Hyaluronic-acid-serum-100-pure
Please read the paragraph about skin moisturizing. It is valid in general, whether you dermaroll or not:
http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Is-this-all-I-need-for-a-successful-dermarolling-treatment
Melasma:
http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/How-to-treat-dermal-melasma
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Dear Sarah,
Before I start, I feel I should thank you for all the useful and extensive information you give about skin care.
I am about to order dermaroller and dermaneedling essentials but I am a little concerned about the timing since summer has begun. At this point I should mention that I live in a mediterranean country where avoiding the sun is almost impossible.
So I would like to ask:
Is the skin regimen described in this thread suitable for the summer months?
Should I wait until autumn to start therapy?
Can I fully rely on sunscreen creams if I start dermarolling care now?
And another question...
Can I combine two rollers, I am thinking 0.5 mm for my weekly care and 1 mm for the monthly collagen induction therapy
Thank you in advance
I look forward to your reply
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Yes, you can definitely roll with short needles in between the sessions with long needled dermarollers.
If you spend lots of time outside and you are not so much in a hurry to start rolling your face, starting after the summer would suit better. It is not absolutely necessary, it is just wiser if you live in a country where it is very sunny throughout summer. Sun = bad, basically. It's essential for a healthy viramin D level, but for the rest you should avoid it like the plague, if you want to keep your skin looking young. All those invasive skin procedures (acid peels, laser etc.) come with a need to avoid sunshine afterwards.
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I am rolling with the 1.5mm on my face. I just bought the copper peptide serum that you sell. How do I incorporate that into my routine with the vitamin C, Adapalene .1%, infadolan, and moisturizer? Also, I put the Adapalene gel on after I roll and it doesn't seem to hurt.
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Do not apply copper peptides on the days that you apply vit. C or Adapalen.
Our copper peptide serum should be applied separately. You can apply them after dermarolling but it will sting because they contains hyaluronic acid.
Adapalen is a retinoid but not all retinoids are acidic. Tretinoin (retinoic acid) is the most potent retinoid however it is acidic and it slightly
stings when applied after dermarolling, especially on the face. We have customers who apply Tretinoin right after rolling and they do not feel any significant stinging. Others do.
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Hi Sarah,
I'm following this routine, I also bought the 1.5 mm roller and the Dr. Numb cream but i dont see any instructions on how to integrate this into the routine.
What kind of soap do you recommend to wash off Numb Cream with?
Use hot water?
Safe to roll right away?
Thanks,
CG
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No soap needed. Wash it off with water (any temperature). You can use a cotton pad. Start rolling straight away because the numbing cream will numb the skin for about 20 minutes.
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Can one use "Copper peptide + Hyaluronic acid serum". on the day, or does it make the skin sensitivte to sunlight? Soo that one can only apply it before bed?
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No it does not cause sensitivity to light, otherwise we would have mentioned that in the store and in our instructions.
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This is a great post! Thank you Sarah! I just put in my first order, and I am excited.
I bought what you suggested, the 1mm roller and the single needles.
And since I currently use an 0.25 stamp, and I couldn't find one on the website, I order myself a 0.5 stamp...to stamp a little bit during the week and in between the 1mm rolling. Hope it is ok if I do this? I am doing this for forehead wrinkles.
In the meantime I have printed this post for ease of reference!
Thank you Sarah.
Best
Essie
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Yes, it is OK.
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Also, do you stamp again after three days even is you still have redness?? Cant find this question anywhere. In my case its 0.5 dermastamp but the redness on my forehead takes at least 3 or 4 days before it disappears...
thank you!
from Sarah: you should wait until the redness is gone
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Hi All,
First, I would like to thank Sarah and others for this incredible site. There is so much good information and advice it's been very helpful.
I have been suffering from acne scarring since my teens and I am close to 40 now. I have mild acne scarring and some acne cyst scarring (rubbery bumps) on both side of my cheeks. As all sufferers know they look worst in the wrong light. To stop acne in my teens I had to take Roaccutane. Ever since I don't get acne.
Only in the last 16 months I have been trying to get rid of my acne scarring. It has always bothered me and affected my self confidence. I have been to some private clinics and paid allot of money for dermaroller and derma stamp treatments. I then started doing lots of research and watched videos and decided to do it my self and I am glad I did. I believe I can derma-roll much better myself and after 16 months I have started seeing some improvements. I have a long way to go but it is encouraging to see some results and as other forum users say it takes time.
I have been using 0.5mm dermaroller once a week and 1.5mm every 5 weeks
As facial creams goes I have been trying some natural oils. It is hard for me to tell whats working whats not working though. But I have done allot of research on oils and these are some of the best ones for regeneration and healing. I have oily skin but using these oils doesn't make my skin too oily or shiny, because I have been using them for a while now my skin produces less oils.
Every day (Also right after dermarolling) I apply (drop them in my palm mix and apply them on my face and neck)
5 drops of pai organic rosehip oil (vitamins, A, Carotenoids, Omegas 3, 6, 7, 9)
5 drops of bio oil
5 drops of antipodes organic avocado oil & rosehip (vitamins A, B, D, omega 3, 9)
1 drop of lavender oil (I don't use it after rolling)
1 drop of tea tree oil (I don't use it after rolling)
5 drops of Argan oil
3 drops of Jason vitamin E 45000 IU oil
+ wait for 20 mins and apply heliocare SPF 50 sun block during the day
After finding this site I immediately ordered 0.5, 1.5mm dermarollers 1.5mm derma stamp, vitamin C powder, Copper Peptide serum, Retin A, Infadolan.
I will carry on 0.5 rolling once a week and 1.5 every 5 weeks, since I roll aggressively and it bleeds allot and stays red for at least 3days even with 0.5mm
I will apply vit C and copper peptides and may be Retin A after rolling depending on my skin reaction.
Questions:
Shall I apply my skin oils mentioned above after rolling with 0.5 or 1.5? So I would apply them after; applying Vit C waiting for 15 mins applying copper peptide serum waiting for 15 mins applying Retin A waiting for 15 mins applying the oils?
As my daily oils. Shall I carry on using the above oils on my face with sunblock and Infadolan around the eyes during the day and in the evening your vit C, copper peptide, Retin A by alternating them (so one night vit C one night copper peptide and Ret A) also Infadolan around the eyes every night.
For my cyst scarring what would you recommend? I was thinking of using 1.5mm dermastamp every 5 weeks. Should I use 2.0mm instead?
Also I was told you have stopped selling numbing cream, do you have plans of getting more?
Many thanks...
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In our experience, a dermastamp or a combination of a dermastamp and dermaroller is more effective for acne scars than a dermaroller alone. You should definitely add the dermastamp and during the same session, first stamp the scars with a 1.5 mm dermastamp and then roll the entire area.
For your cyst scarring, use a 1.5 mm dermastamp every 3-4 weeks. What you can try is applying Tretinoin cream (A-Ret) on these scars right after stamping. It may help softening the scar tissue. I do not normally recommend applying Tretinoin right after microneeding but is some special cases (any scars or stretch marks with tough scar tissue) i do recommend it.
Concerning your oils, keep the skin moisturized after microneedling until it heals. For the rest, if you feel your skin "likes" the oils, apply them as you suggested. Infadolan is very oily so I do not think it needs oils in addition to that.