Sarah Vaughter answers questions about OwnDoc products

Forums => Dermarolling / Microneedling => Topic started by: csd323 on March 21, 2011, 02:32:57 PM

Title: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling - amazing results
Post by: csd323 on March 21, 2011, 02:32:57 PM
I got hypopigmentation on my chest in 2009 from an IPL laser that was turned way too high. The white bar marks were so noticeable that I would not wear anything that was not a crew neck... No bathing suit, no V neck shirts or dresses. It was so depressing. I finally heard about needling and started last fall. I am going to try and post a before and after to show how amazing my results have been. I cannot thank you enough for providing this information and the products. The first picture was a year after the IPL.... it was taken in June 2010. The second picture is after needling for 5 months, taken March 2011.
Title: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling
Post by: Crissie on May 27, 2012, 01:38:20 PM
OMG - this is exactly what I have on my chest (from IPL treatments and scars from removing moles) and am so thankful to find this post.  I also cannot wear anything but crew necks - it is very depressing!  Last year, I had a pigmentation transfer done by Henry Ford's Derma research team.  They use it for Vitiligo patients.  It was very expensive and elaborate - and it actually made it worst.  Now I have some scarring / white spots from that as well!

Can you please tell me what you did, which roller you used and which products?  Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling
Post by: SarahVaughter on May 29, 2012, 06:34:10 PM
You should start rolling your whole chest three times a week with a 0.5 mm dermaroller. In addition, use a 1.5 mm dermstamp on the scars and on the spots that are the most de-pigmented. Stamp the spots and slightly outside of the borders of the spots to facilitate migration of melanin pigment from the surrounding normal skin into the de-pigmented spots.

If your depigmentation improves, some dermarolling maintenance may be necessary to keep it.

Consider buying a NB-UVB lamp.
More about it in my reply #13 in this forum thread:
Title: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling
Post by: Crissie on May 29, 2012, 10:16:12 PM
HI Sarah,

Thanks for the reply. Here is a photo of my chest, taken last year.  It actually looks a little worse than this now, I have some sun now, and these spots do not tan.  I tried a pigmentation transplantation, at the Henry Ford research derm department.  It was very expensive, they take a skin graph, dissect the pigment cells, do abrasion on the white spots, put the pigment cells and a special wrap for 3 days.  They have a 70% success rate.  With me, it did not work.  I think it actually increased the whiteness due to the abrasion process.  When I scar, I scar white, not raised skin or anything other than just white.

This skin on my chest is very thin.  I had a lot of sun damage in my past. I had some moles removed, then an IPL treatment that was too intense.  Now, I use sun screen and do not go out into the sun (except for recently when I thought perhaps the white spots might tan).  Also, I have been using the Supercop CP serum for about 3.5 months now, do not think that made a difference.  What is your experience / opinion about those products.

Given this, do you still recommend the same treatments? I want to make sure I do not make this worse.

Thanks so very much for your personalized responses!!

                      Attached files
Title: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling
Post by: SarahVaughter on May 30, 2012, 03:39:07 PM
The problem is that your skin is not just depigemeted, I think that your white areas are actually scars. That is much harder to improve. Try the approach I suggested in my previous posting.


  Even if dermarolling/needling improves your scars only temporarily and you will have to do regular rolling maintenance to keep it pigmented, at least you will have a way to make your décolleté looking nice for when you needed and you will be able to wear low cut neckline dresses etc.


Bimatoprost is also worth trying. Let us know whether it works:

I have written here about the ReCell method that you underwent. Maybe you can comment there about your experience:

Title: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling
Post by: Crissie on May 30, 2012, 05:37:55 PM
Hi Sarah,

Yes, these are scars, but isn't that the case with the other individual who had hypo pigmentation from an IPL?  Some of the scars are from have mole types of growth removed, really a light scrapping o the skin- it left white spots.  The other streak type of line are from the head of an IPL, the IPL was too strong, and actually burned my skin.  So, these are scars from burns.  Does derma rolling not work permanently on scars?  I thought there was some success with that? Had seen many posts on results with scars.   Do you recommend putting a specific product on the skin right after rolling, like the Bimatoprost product?  They say it is sold as an eyelash enhancer in a product called Latisse.  Do you have any idea of where I could find this product?  What about Supercop (copper), any comment on that?  Thanks Sarah!

For the group, in terms of the pigmentation transplant .. I did research on-line and found there was a doctor in India (I think that same doc that is referred to in Sarah's link) who was training a team in the US at Henry Ford Hospital in Detriot.  It was still considered to be an academic research program.  They treat Vitiligo and burn patients and have a 70% success rate.  Anyway, it is very expensive.  They take the very top layer of skin from about a one inch donor sight area (like your upper leg), dissect that into what they call the pigmentation cells.  They use a machine to do a strong abrasion on the site that will receive the transplant.  It leaves the skin raw - bleeding.  They apply the pigment cells, using a special dressing that seals it tight, and I had to go back 4 days later to have the dressing removed.  No showering or getting the site wet during that time.  I had this done to the scars / white spots on my chest, a scar on my face, and part of a breast augmentation scar under my breast.  They say it takes about 6-12 months for the pigmentation to return.  The breast aug scars looks good - it has more pigmentation now.  The chest and face - I don't see improvement.  Actually, on my chest, I think it is slightly worse from the abrasion process.  In has been a good 12 months.  I can't recommend the process since it did not work and it very expensive.

The only process I have found to date that has helped is one called Carboxy.  It is a method of injecting small amount of (I think CO 2 gas) under the skin, used for wrinkles, stretch marks and I tried it on my chest.  It did improve quite a bit.  It really helped the stretch marks on my lower back.  Very simple process, I had about 12 treatments.  Not expensive.
Title: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling
Post by: SarahVaughter on June 01, 2012, 11:43:11 AM
Micorneedling works both for pigmentations (hypo or hyper) and scars.

  However, it is easier to treat skin that is just hypopigmented than treating hypopigmented scars. Scars tissue often improves but never completely disappears (unless the scars are really shallow) whereas hypopigmented skin (for example Vitiligo) can go completely back to normal.


  Bimatoprost is worth trying but I cannot guarantee its efficacy, neither have I received feedback from our customers yet.


  You can either get a prescription from a doctor for a Bimatoprost product called Latisse-for eyelash enhancement (it is overpriced) or try to buy it on Internet without prescription. (for example Lumigan Drops).

Title: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling
Post by: Crissie on June 12, 2012, 07:19:29 PM

I received and tried the derma roller last night.  The .5 roller was minimal, it irritated my skin slightly but not much more than that.  However, I only rolled once in each direction.  The 1.5 derma stamp was flat out painful.  Even when I used very slight pressure on it, I got pin point bleeding.  I also had noticed that the 1.5 single roll derma roller was not as painful as the derma stamp.

My question is, with the derma stamp, is that more aggressive because you have to push or stamp it into the skin so hard?  Or is the the same as a 1.5 roller?

Title: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling
Post by: SarahVaughter on June 17, 2012, 04:17:02 PM
You have to roll more than once in each direction. Roll at least 8 times in each direction.

The reason why a 1.5 mm ONE LINER dermaroller is less painful that a 1.5 mm dermastamp is because there are less needles in the skin in one go. A one liner roller has only 24 needles, whereas a dermastamp has 35 needles.

A regular 1.5 mm roller has 192 needles.

cds 323 made a comment on our website:
Hello, I am csd and my picture is the first one above with the white bar marks on my chest. As for your question about the length used, I think I started with 1.0 and used it all over my chest about 2 to 3 times per week intitially. If your scars are less "deep" you could use the .5 length, but at least 2 of my scars were so severe that I could literally feel that they were harder than the rest of my skin, if that makes sense... the white scars felt really dense, so I was aggressive in trying to break up that scar tissue. This site has a very good section on what length roller to use for different areas of the body. Each area and scar are different, but the administrator of this site tries to answer as many questions as possible, either in a response directly or by putting the information to answer your question on this site. Good luck and I hope you have great success!!
Title: Re: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling - amazing results
Post by: MartinD on April 16, 2013, 10:21:02 AM
Sarah, I seem to have developed hypopigmentation on the corner of my mouth after dermarolling. It is a white irregularly shaped patch of skin, no scarring, which doesn't tan very well/at all when i apply fake tan.

As I think this has been caused by dermarolling, is this something i can treat by dermarolling as you suggest? Looking online I suspect this may be classed as post-inflammatory hypopigmentation as found this from a journal article:

"Postinflammatory hypopigmentation is a common cause of acquired hypopigmentary
disorders. It can be a result of cutaneous inflammation, injury or dermatological
treatment. Most cases of postinflammatory
hypopigmentation improve spontaneously within weeks or months if the primary
cause is ceased"

The cutaneous inflammation/injury part made me think that my issue was caused by dermarolling.
Title: Re: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling - amazing results
Post by: MartinD on April 16, 2013, 10:39:59 AM
I thought it would be useful to include the paper i read as it does mention hypopigmentation can occur after laser resurfacing and chemical peels:

Postinflammatory hypopigmentation
V. Vachiramon and K. Thadanipon
2011  Clinical and Experimental Dermatology, 36, 708–714
Title: Re: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling - amazing results
Post by: SarahVaughter on April 20, 2013, 12:49:12 PM
Sorry for the delayed answer. I somehow overlooked this question.

Since we started to sell dermarollers many years ago, I have heard about dermaneedling (rarely) causing long term hyperpigmentation, I have heard about cases when microneedling helped and also did not help with hypopigmentation, but I have never heard about dermaneedling causing hyperpigmentation.

Can you please tell me some details about your dermarolling regime?

Is it possible for you to post a photo of your mouth?

Lasers are much more prone to leave hypo or hyperpigmentation than any other method because they use heat. You can read about it here:

Chemical peels are also more prone to such unwanted side effects because they remove layers of skin. Dermarolling does not.

Typically, burns leave hypopigmented scars.

If an injury is serious enough to leave a scar (which is not the case in dermaneedling), the scar is often hypopigmented because scar tissue does not contain normally functioning melanocytes to produce skin pigment melanin.

Long lasting inflammation (chronic inflammation), such as for example in acne can also result in hypopigmentation but the inflammation after dermarolling is very short lasting and certainly not chronic.  It lasts about as long as inflammation after sunburn.

If you can show me a photo, it would be very helpful.
Title: Re: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling - amazing results
Post by: foreveramber on June 05, 2013, 07:03:56 PM
Hi Sarah,

I need your advice on whether microneedling or dermarolling might help my 5 year old daughter. About a year and a half ago she fell and cut her forehead (as you can see there are two scars that are left from that). One had sutures while the other one was glued together. She tans really easily and I think this is also the reason why the scars stand out so much. They also did not heal as well as I had hoped regardless of the fact that I religiously put SPF for a year and also used silicone sheets each night. I have gone to dermatologist who recommended that I try laser but I am so scared to try it as many people on the web say they actually got hypopigmented scars from the laser. I would really like to try something where I would know for sure that those scars would not look worse than they already do after the treatment. They are very visible and I am willing to try anything and invest any amount of money necessary if I knew it would make it look better than it does now. Considering I have no idea about the topical solutions to use or which rollers to buy can you please recommend(http://[img][img])[/img][/img] some sort of system with purchase links and instructions to follow. Greatly appreciated.

Desperate mom.
Title: Re: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling - amazing results
Post by: SarahVaughter on June 09, 2013, 07:12:38 AM
Sorry for the delayed answer, I overlooked your posting since I did not expect it.

I do not feel comfortable to recommend dermaneedling for a five year old because it is painful but if you use the shortest needles, it may be bearable.

You do not have to pre-treat her skin in any way so ignore the instructions in our dermarolling instructions.

All you need to do is to stamp the scar and keep it moisturized after stamping.

Buy our 0.5 mm dermastamp (not a dermaroller) and stamp the scars twice a week. It will soften the scar, crush the hardened collagen bundles, enable migration of melanocytes (skin cells that produce skin pigment melanin) from the surrounding skin into the scar and hopefully it will also trigger the formation of new melanocytes in the scar.

Melanin pigment is normally present in the skin but its production increases upon sun exposure. Melanin is our natural UV filter that protects us from DNA damage caused by UV radiation, which is why we get tanned upon sun exposure. The body increases its natural UV filter (pigment melanin) in the skin. The darker the skin, the better it is protected.

(Melanin is also present in the iris of the eyes. Blue eyes have a layer of melanin in the back layer of the iris. Brown eyes have a layer of Melanin in the back and also in the front layer of the iris and they are better protected from the UV. Hair also contains Melanin (two types of Melanin, in fact and their levels and ratio results in a blonde, red, brown or black color). The Melanin content of hair decreases with age. Grey hair has a low Melanin level and white hair has no Melanin at all. Albinism is the disorder of having no or almost no Melanin).


In order to get color in hypopigmentations, you must expose them to the sun. Do not expose it when the scars are freshly stamped but expose it a few days later. If you manage, apply sunscreen to her face and forehead but do not apply any to the scars.

If dermastamping and sun exposure will not significantly help in six months, buy a NB-UVB lamp (a handheld device) and target just the scars. Cover the forehead for example with aluminium foil and make two holes exactly the size of the scars to target them with the lamp. You must protect her eyes.

Using the lamp is a bit tricky because you have to get it just right to avoid making it darker than the surrounding skin but if you do make it darker, it will fade, just like any other tanning.

Treating the scar for months with a dermastamp prior to the lamp exposure is very suitable because it will smooth out the surface of the scar and make completely even tanning more likely.

Often, dermastamping itself improves not only the texture of the scar but the color as well.
Title: Re: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling - amazing results
Post by: foreveramber on June 09, 2013, 01:07:09 PM
Thank you for your quick response. I just ordered the 0.5 mm stamp and will try it for 6 months twice a week as you suggested. As far as keeping the are moist after the treatment can you please suggest an ointment for it. Would Infadolant be a good choice and if so where can I order it. Thank you in advance for your response.
Title: Re: Hypopigmentation on Chest Before and After Needling - amazing results
Post by: SarahVaughter on June 10, 2013, 04:41:53 AM
Yes, Infadolan would be very suitable and we sell it.
You could also use something else - almond oil for example.