Sarah Vaughter answers questions about OwnDoc products
Forums => Dermarolling / Microneedling => Topic started by: mila on November 14, 2012, 10:36:35 PM
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Hello all, just wanted to post an update. I have been stamping with the 1.5 mm and 2mm single needle for 6 months. I have been also combing that with the Suctioning method for the past 3 months. My expectations have been realistic and I am glad to report at least 25% improvement. I know its not much but it is something! I noticed my scars are not as sharp amd jagged at the edges and they are smoother. Not completely filled in but little by little appears to be. I have been taking the vitamin c orally for the past 4 months and use Retin A 0.025 every night. My friends and family say they see improvement! Even my dermatologist is curious with the turnout. All the best to those doing the derma needling and hang in there!
Mila
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Some more pics (other side)
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Wow Mila. That is way more than a 25% improvement. It looks more like 70% to me. Those are fantastic results. Keep it up and they'll soon be hardly noticeable at all.
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Absolutely fantastic, Mila!!
We know it is not easy to regularly keep taking photographs (especially not because they all have to be sharp, high-resolution, well-lighted and from the same angle) and then to publish them online for everyone to see, so I am extremely grateful that you came forward to show your progress.
Therefore, because this kind of long-term, high-quality feedback is so important to us (and to give credibility to the entire concept of dermaneedling), please email me (sarah@owndoc.com) because we think a reward is in order. We will send you some products of your choice.
Would you mind if we watermarked your pictures so that unethical competitors of ours can't put them all over the internet and claim that it's from their clinic/products?
It would be very interesting to get all the information on your exact "protocol" as well, so that we can learn from it and perhaps update our instructions (we're working on providing expanded guidelines and suggested schedules for product application/combination).
Thank you again for this great news.
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Mila emailed me her protocol, reproduced below.
She used our single needles (previous, sold-out model) but we will get improved single needles soon, we think well before Christmas 2012.
I would be glad to share my protocol.
Really, from the beginning I followed the instructions totally. I am 21 years old. I have the rolling and boxcar scars on my cheeks.
I also have an old surgical scar on my forehead from when I was 3 years old from an injury.
My tactic is I single needle all the bigger scars (this takes some time since there are a lot) and then after that I stamp that same area 5 or 6 times.
For the first 3 months I used the 1.5mm stamp, afterward but moved on to the 2mm stamp. I just use ice for numbing, but have high tolerance for pain, apparently. I noticed my skin is very tough so I push the needles in all the way and always needle very densely and from all angles. The very next day I use the suction pump on all the spots I stamped and do that everyday for 1 week, then every other day the next week.
I suction to the point where the skin elevates and gets bruising but this always subsides. I also go back to using the retin a every night the very next night after stamping. I've also been taking the vitamin c orally for the past few months as I mentioned. I stamp every 5 weeks. No problems so far. Thats it! I'm not expecting perfection, but am curious to see my progress another 6 months later.
I brought a pump off ebay, but it appears to have lost some 'umph.' I was planning on purchasing the one you sell, so that would be great! Thanks goes to kind hearted ones like yourself who offer practical and frank supplies, and information. It's said often but really you are the best supplier out there!
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great results, i'm happy for you :)
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Mila - I have the same type of acne scarring and just purchased the derma needling products - 1.5mm roller and stamp - I can only hope to get your results - good job and you should be proud!
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:) Yes, Mila your skin looks great! My areas of concern look just like yours and also on my cheeks. I am motivated by reading about your routine and seeing the results. Thank you for sharing and taking photographs.
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Mila, can you provide your specific suction routine? I'm not sure if I should suction several times throughout the day or just do one long treatment of numerous passes all at one time.....
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Hello everyone, and thanks for your best wishes!
To answer your question Dewey I suction the day after I stamp, everyday the first week then every other day the second week. (According to the study, maximum results are achieved this way! See the article Sarah posted on the Suction and Subscision method)
I do this after I've had my shower before I go to bed only... So just that one time, not several times during the day.
I splash some warm water on the parts I am about to suction, ( I find it easier on the skin to do this) I use the suction pump and hold it for about 6 seconds over the spots I needled and literally drag that cup over the entire needled area, pumping along to maintain the pressure. I even pass it a few more times just to be thorough. I know I have done as the study if my skin is slightly elevated as a result of the suctioning. Afterwards, I apply the tretenoin gel. Just a heads up though- This causes bruising that is very noticable, (but it always goes away) That's just what I've been doing!
All the best!
Mila
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Thank you SO Much! And Thanks to the Vaughters for your constant efforts of keeping us informed and your fair prices. I cannot thank you enough for helping me feel better about my skin....
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So happy to hear you are having great results. Your skin looks much better. I have small ice pick scars in my right cheek mostly and have been struggling for acne for years. I went to school to be an aesthetician as well. I have only rolled one time so far and it's creeping up on the one month mark so I ordered a 2mm derma stamp and suction cup. I'm wondering where you purchased your single needles from because I would like to get on this right away as well. I would definitely order them from here but don't want to wait till they are available. Any info would be appreciated. Thank you
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She got them from us I think, when we still sold our previous model. We have done a lot of research and there exist no single needle that can safely be used. We used to have a big forum posting about why, called "the single needle design sage". No tattoo needle, no acupuncture needle, no hypodermic needle, they're all unsuitable. That's why we're still working hard to get them for sale this year..
Mila uses both dermastamp and single needle and the dermastamp is also an excellent choice, esp. when you have large areas.
Also, to begin with for the first months, the dermastamp is a good choice, on areas as large or larger than the diameter of the dermastamp (or even a little smaller, since you should needle a bit around the perimeter of scars as well).
The only halfway acceptable needle (that will still cause heavy bruising and subcutaneous bleeding due to the lack of a stop) is a cactus needle. It has usually the required very long taper and small diameter.
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Yes, I purchased the single needles from Sarah way back when
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We have a first batch of 180 x 5 needles available for sale in our store now.
NOTE: Some needles (the occasional needle) are slightly longer than 2 mm. We're working on getting the needles all 1.8 mm +/- 10%.
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I ordered the single needles and since there may be some longer needles I was researching about the single needle lengths on the forum. There was mention of adjusting the length using toothpicks... but I can no longer get to the article that was referenced.
http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Adjusting-the-length-of-the-single-needle
Can you explain how to adjust the length? Thank you so much!
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Hi Mae,
We used to sell a totally different type of single needles, they were a kind of tattoo needles and their length was often too long so they caused bruising. Then we designed a much better single needle, more ergonomic and with an exact length that does not need adjusting. Those needles we sell now (sold out at the moment but we get new stock in a week or so).
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This is very motivating. I've been hesitant to really give suctioning a good chance. I've also had improvement with my scars but worry that I've hit a brick wall. I dont know if this question is allowed, but do you think, because I'll start suctioning every day and causing bruising, that putting foundation over the bruising will be okay? I apolgize in advance if this kind of question is not allowed. I just relly wanna give suctioning a real shot and I dont want to unsightly features stopping me.
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We are called "owndoc" for a reason - I have always supported people taking initiative and improvise a little :-)
Trying various approaches is a good idea, especially in difficult skin conditions such as scars.
In principle, foundation should not be applied on freshly rolled skin but a day after is already OK. Applying it over bruises is also OK. Make sure that the foundation is unlikely to be contaminated – it should be rather new and preferably in a tube because tubes do not get contaminated.
I have answered almost 2000 questions on this forum so we are not so strict with what is and what is not allowed, however it requires constant vigilance to prevent this forum from descending into "empty rattling" if you know what I mean. Also, I have Asperger's syndrome and this is characterized by being honest, focused and rational but sometimes, aspies are perceived as rude because we lack "social skills".
BTW thank you very much for your email - I will have a look at it as soon as I have time.
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Hi, Mila,
I'm new to this forum, but am not new to derma stamping, single-needling, and application of strong acids, copper peptides, infadolan, skin oils, etc. However, my results have not nearly yielded such wonderful results as yours in two years time. Your progress is truly amazing and inspirational!
In 2010, I suffered 2nd degree burns that were scattered on several parts of my face. I took it upon myself to apply a Jessner's peel at home, and I had never applied a peel myself before. I thought that after all the internet research I did, that I was informed enough and had the tools necessary to do it myself and save some money. Well, needless to say I failed miserably, and have probably spent more money correcting my scars than I would have just to pay and have the peels done professionally.
I've also suffered from some cystic acne scarring, from the lovely acne that I began breaking out with after I turned 30 and I've never had acne before that in my life, so I was seriously confused. Still working on those scars as well, and new acne that I get almost every day, so that I don't scar from those.
Two years later... I've single-needled several times with diabetic lancets and the needles that Sarah sold on her website, as well as her derma-stamp and derma-roller. I'm still trying to figure out which is the best method for me overall when it comes to needling. I've also used Copper Peptides from another site, 20% Salicylic Acid peel after single-needling. I've also recently incorporated the use of a suction cup like the one you use. I just began one month ago, after my monthly single-needle session. I'm too afraid to begin using even the mildest of retinol creams, so I stick with infalodan ointment or biafine.
Have you ever used a strong acid after needling, or only the retinol cream? Do you use anything mild to soothe the swelling or prevent additional scarring?
It would be great to hear how much more your skin has improved and maybe see some updated photos!
Take care :)
Sincerely,
~cg
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Hello everyone! I've just returned from a 6 month stay in Mexico! No access to the forum down there, hence the late response (sorry!)
To answer your question cg, I have never used anything stronger than Retin A. I am currently using the 0.05 % dosage every night which has helped in improving my overall complexion.
In regards to the swelling, I don't take or do anything for it. I feel (in my own opinion) the more swelling the better! I just cover it over with makeup the next couple of days until it goes down
Out of precaution, and because I was in the sun soo much the past 6 months, I put a hold on needling. Unfortunately, due to the change in climate and environment my acne has flared up again. (Noooooo!) I'm not too worried, though- I visited my derm today and was prescribed some medication to bring it back under control. As soon as it's safe I will return to needling and post updates!
But continue to hang in there! It may take some time. I know cesamaddictaol is having great results due to his patience and hard work!!
Take care everyone! And don't lose hope..
Mila
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Hi Sarah
I would like to ask, how often can I use the sinle needle between two treatment with 2.0 mm dermastamp (every 4 weeks).
If I can use single needle more frequently than 1 time per 4 weeks ( for example every two weeks or similar)
Now I follow the Mila`treatment routine, which is really great.
To Mila:
Hi Mila,
thank you very much for your report about your dermaneedling routine. It is really great and effective not only for me. You helped a lot of people to improve their acne scars. I wish you all the best in your life.
regards
Andrej
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The single needle should not be used more frequently than at most once every three weeks (preferably four weeks) on the same skin area. You can use it however in the same session as the dermastamp. First needle the scars and then stamp them. If the session is really aggressive, repeat it after five weeks.