Derminator



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Messages - user886

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Dermarolling / Microneedling / Questions about needling scars
« on: February 08, 2014, 07:44:35 PM »
I've been using your single needles for a little while and am happy to say I have seen improvement.  It is my hope that since these scars are small that I will be able to get rid of them completely or at least come close to doing this.  I have a few questions:

1) I needle very aggressively.  I needle the scar a lot, trying to hit every single part of it, as well as a bit outside of it.  I probably hit the same spots of the scar several times.  I basically do it until I can't take it anymore in that area.  All of my scars, even the ones on the nose, have either stayed the same or improved.  However, I read somewhere that you should actually leave parts of the scar unneedled so the good cells can send stuff to the bad ones or something like that.  Is this true?  Should I not try to needle the entire scarred area?


2) At the moment, all I am doing is needling.  I am not applying anything to them.  How much of a difference does applying stuff like vit C and A make?  Or copper peptides?  I am concerned about the possible redness/irritation that could follow.  But I do wonder if the results would be better and faster if I did apply something.  And if so, what would you recommend?  The infadolan stuff just seems like a moisturizer basically?  How necessary is the retin a?  That stuff I know can irritate my skin a lot.  If I were to apply infadolan, how often would I apply it?  And for the vitamin c, I understand it is about 2-3 times a week.  In the instructions you say to apply vitamin c serum 4 days prior to needling...is that just that one night 4 days before you needle or do you apply it every day leading up to needling?  Also, I understand that you need to strip the skin of oil before applying vitamin c.  I stopped using all facial cleansers and that has definitely helped my acne.  How would you suggest I go about getting rid of the oil prior to applying vitamin c?  Could this be done with just a tissue or water or maybe those salicylic acid pads?  And how would I get the vitamin c off of my face the next morning?


3) Is there anything that you recommend taking orally to help boost collagen production and scar remodeling?  I am treating both indented and hypertrophic scars.  I heard that 1g of vitamin C, 1g of MSM, and 5g of flaxseed oil a day helps.  Currently I am taking fish oil, primrose oil, probiotics and a multivitamin that has 300mg vit C and 10,000 IU vit A total.  I also get a lot of protein and amino acids which I heard helps.


4) Is it true that you should avoid rubbing or touching areas after you needle them?  I saw somewhere that the new skin coming in is extremely fragile and rubbing the area can actually tear or break this down.  I ask because many of my scars are on the nose where I frequently take a tissue and rub all the excess oil off because for some reason that area gets very oily.  Also, I have indented scars right next to hypertrophic ones and apply pressure to the area 1-2 times a day to try to bring them down.


5) Speaking of hypertrophic scars, would I apply infadolan and vitamin c serum to them?  Would it help/hurt my goal of trying to bring them down?  For treating these scars I have just been stamping and needling them very aggressively, just like the indented scars, and apply pressure for 20-30 seconds 1-2 times a day.   


A lot of questions, I know.  I thank you in advance for taking the time to address them.  I'll be happy to answer other peoples questions as to what I've been doing to get results...though I pretty much covered all of that in my questions.

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I've been losing weight quickly at 2lbs a week.  Percentages are hard because I didn't take any before/after pictures and scars look so different depending the on angle, lighting, etc.  But with that being said, I can safely say that I see noticeable improvement in them...perhaps 10-15% from needling and stamping two times.  The box scar probably showed the most improvement, the rolling I feel like has improved but the weight loss definitely seemed to affect it negatively, the ice picks improved some, enlarged pores didnt seem to change much at all. 

I just stamp the large/not so bad scars and for the smaller and deeper ones I needle the heck out of them and then stamp them a few times right after.

I don't apply anything.  Maybe I should.  I just dont know what to go with exactly and im worried about side effects like redness, irritation and breakouts.

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Oh wow this is interesting.  I had no idea.  Funny I actually started needling around the same time I started dieting.  I have lost a ton of weight and am in the best shape of my life yet have still seen improvement in my acne scars from needling.  Now I can't help but wonder what they'd look like if I didn't just drop 30lbs of fat lol

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I was just about to order the single needles but it says they are out of stock.  Is there an eta on when they will be available?

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I recommend the single needles and Infadolan ointment for dermaneedling aftercare. As I mentioned above, you must be extra careful on the nose area.

So I don't need copper peptides or vitamin c?

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What skin condition do you plan to treat?

Acne scars.  Specifically a shallow box scar (I think), a small rolling or box scar on the nose, a small line indented scar on my forehead and maybe some little ones on the nose.  I have needled them all before using those diabetic lancets like I said earlier.  But I haven't done so in over a year.  Their appearance has improved a bit since then but the progress has seemed to come to a standstill.  I was looking to try it again this time using the needles you sell which you say are better so hopefully I'll get even better results.

I'm in college so I'll probably wait and do it during spring break because of the likely scabs and redness I'll be dealing with.

I'm still debating whether or not I should suction as well.  I am intrigued by it but I don't want to deal with prolonged redness and such that would last past my spring break.

But which products (if any) should I apply before and/or after needling?  I do have sensitive skin and I've tried retin a before and that stuff made my skin incredibly red and irritated

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Ok and what products do I need? And when would I apply them?

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After you suction, how does your skin look and for how long?  I'm trying to get a good idea of how much time ill have to spend hiding from the public after this.


I  suction each area about 8-10 times at 2 seconds each. My skin will be slightly pink and elevated for about 20 minutes and then go back to normal. Recently I must have either counted wrong and done too many passes or left the suction on too long because the areas got really red and have stayed moderately pinkish/purplish for a couple of days. I know this will go away and can be covered by makeup but it's still annoying. So beware of being too enthusiastic like I was and take it slow to see how your skin handles it  :)

Oh wow you suction each scar 8-10 times?  Thanks for the heads up, I'll try to be careful.

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Oh ok that makes sense.  I guess I'll purchase the single needles you sell as well as the suction thing.  What else (if anything) do I need in terms of the essentials?

Also, some of the scars I want to needle are on the nose.  They are really small but still bug me, especially one of them.  I had heard that you shouldn't needle scars on the nose and that it can make them worse?  Is this true?  I needled these scars many times in the past with those diabetic lancets and saw nothing but improvement

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The subcision method is usually performed by a doctor. It requires freezing of the skin and they sometimes have to go quite deep if there are a lot of tethers. I had this done by a doctor and he used a hyperdermic needle to perform the procedure. They go in horizontally and basically wiggle the needle back and forth so that the sharp edge can cut the tethers underneath the skin. Some scars are really deeply tethered so in order to see success with the dermarolling/ stamping this might have to be done first.

I noticed a big improvement in the lifting of the skin when this was done. And now I use the dermastamp every four weeks to fill in the rest of the skin. I've also started suctioning every couple of days. The right diet is also important for new collagen to form. Plenty of protein, zinc, Vit C, are necessary for good healing.

Oh that sounds pretty intense.  My scars aren't too deep so I probably won't go the subcision route.  I'll just needle them.

Is the dermastamp better than single needling do you think?

After you suction, how does your skin look and for how long?  I'm trying to get a good idea of how much time ill have to spend hiding from the public after this.

Yeah I get a ton of protein and take zinc and vitamin c every day.

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Hollow, knife shaped needles such as diabetic lancets are totally unsuitable for microneedling.

The suction method (and downtime) is explained here. Please read the entire thread:

http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/subcision-suction-method-for-acne-scars

http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/how-much-bruising-with-suction-method/

"Officially" only the rolling type of acne scars are tethered to the underlying structures but I also recommend suctioning for stubborn boxcar scars that has not improved after about one year of microneedling. It is worth trying.

What's wrong with the diabetic lancets? I was using the BD ultra fine 33 gauge lancets.  I have definitely seen improvement from this.  How are the needles you sell different/better?

I'll probably just needle the small scars and try suctioning the boxscar

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Hello,

I am intrigued by the suctioning method and am considering purchasing the items needed to perform this procedure.  I just have a few questions.

Is there a difference between subcision-suctioning and needle-suctioning? I've seen the subcision term thrown around a lot but I don't know if there's a difference between the two.  I needled a few acne scars in the past with diabetic lancets and have seen some minor improvement.  I haven't needled in over a year but I am looking to try it again to hopefully improve the appearance of these scars some more.  It sounds like I would just needle the scars as I usually do then use that suction item you sell every day after for a week then every other day for the second week, correct?

What is the typical downtime associated with this?  And by downtime I mean how long will I be carrying a very unsightly mark or bruise on my face.  When I just needled, I believe I just had to steer clear of the public for a few days until the scabs came off then there was some redness for a week or two.

What type of scars is the suctioning most useful for?

What other products should I purchase to use in conjunction with this method?

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