Messages

1501

Dermarolling / Microneedling / What happens when you needle healthy skin?

« on: June 25, 2011, 10:43:35 AM »

There is no problem with needling healthy skin. You will trigger collagen production.

   Skin with scars is really not unhealthy skin, it has the same properties as normal skin but usually the quantity and placement of collagen is different in scar tissue.

   Concerning wrinkles, the difference between wrinkly and non-wrinkly skin is described here:

   

  https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Wrinkles-between-the-eyebrowsu/a>

   

The technique called needle abrasion -as explained in our instructions should be used only on scar/stretch marks tissue. There is no problem if you hit the non-scar skin often when treating the scar but you should concentrate on the scar and its edges, needling slightly over the edges into the healthy skin., to facilitate the migration of melanocytes from the surrounding tissue into the scar. Needle abrasion crushes the hardened collagen bundles and this will soften the scar.

1502

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Results in 6 months :)

« on: June 25, 2011, 10:22:18 AM »

I found cheap 70% percent Ethanol for sale in Australia:

   

  https://http://www.medshop.com.au/whiteley-microl-70-ethanol-filtered-to-0.2-micron-500ml.html

   

Use it for your dermaroller - it can be used on the skin as well.  

Another very good skin disinfectant is Betadine solution or -cream. It is sold OTC. Wipe it off before you roll.     Do not use Betadine if pregnant or breastfeeding.

  Our customers receive with their orders a leaflet with a link to our instructions:

   https://http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

   

  You can read there how to use the single needle.

1503

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Red stretch Marks on arms

« on: June 21, 2011, 05:23:56 AM »

If I have written anywhere that a regular dermaroller should be used every 5 months then this is a typo. Can you show me where?

 

  A 1.0 mm dermaroller can be used every 2-3 weeks on the same skin area.

   

  A 1.5 mm dermaroller can be used every 3-4 weeks on the same skin area.

   

The thicker the skin, the more frequently you can roll.

   

  One of my links was about using a one-liner dermaroller, which is for the very intensive and targeted treatment of stretch marks, scars or wrinkles in combination with a regular dermaroller. In this case you roll the whole area with a regular dermaroller and then every day or whenever you have time, you roll the scars or wrinkles only with the one liner. When you have completed all of them and (that can take many weeks if you are covered with stretch marks or you are too busy), you give your skin a week off and start the whole process again.

     

  Vit. C and vit. A are not interchangeable. They have different functions. If you want to use only one of them for stretch marks then use the A-Ret and make sure you eat enough food containing vit. C.

   

You could have vascular laser done. It doesn't make stretch marks better at all though. It only coagulates the diluted blood vessels that are still present in red stretch marks (that is why they are red).  It will diminish the redness but the stretch mark will be still there.

   

  On the other hand, I am not completely sure whether coagulating the blood vessels is such a good idea.  Red stretch mark means the scar tissue is still active - the process of scar maturation is not yet completed and the stretch marks might shrink and heal a little. Also the A-Ret worked better on red stretch marks in clinical studies.

1504

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Best Skin Care Routine

« on: June 19, 2011, 01:33:30 PM »

You should roll every 3-4 weeks with a 1.5 mm.

   A-Ret: Three times a week, in the evening. Do not apply it immediately after dermarolling and a day or two after.

   

  (If you get no results after dermarolling the scars for many months, you can start experimenting with applying the A-Ret immediately after dermarolling but apply it to the scars only. You can use a toothpick for that. Apply just a little. Do not smear it all over your face because it will sting).

   

  Vit. C: Twice or three times a week. Apply in the evening on the days when you do not apply A-Ret. Wash it off in the morning. Do not apply immediately after dermarolling with a 1.5 mm.

   

  Apply vit. C for three consecutive days just before dermarolling with a 1.5 mm roller/stamp to achieve maximum skin concentration.

   

  Copper peptides - you can apply them immediately after dermarollling. Just cut a piece off the mask and smear it on your face. Wait about 30 minutes for it to absorb and apply Infadolan on top of it. Seal the open mask sachet (with a paper clip or tape) and use it until it is empty.

   

Infadolan - apply right after dermarolling with the 1.5 mm and for a couple of days more if it doesn't make you break out.

   

Benzoyl peroxide - do not apply it for at least 1 day after dermarolling with the 1.5 mm.

     

  If you do not get results with dermarolling, consider needling the scars with our single needles. The combination of a 1.5 mm dermaroller with the single needles is successful in many stubborn cases.

1505

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Hypopigmented scar treatment

« on: June 18, 2011, 05:38:02 PM »

Actually: Do only the needling for the first few sessions. Needling itself should produce, or "wake up " melanocytes and the color will likely revert more or less to normal.

   

  If you do not achieve it with needling, try melanocytes transfer with the 0.5 mm dermaroller. There is no particular place to take them from. The thigh, hip or abdomen would be good. Anywhere where you know your skin tans very well. Just do not take it from the buttocks or the back since the skin is too thick there and a 0.5 mm dermaroller might not reach the bottom of the epidermis where the melanocytes reside.

1506

Dermarolling / Microneedling / pitted shallow scars - I need help

« on: June 17, 2011, 07:28:07 AM »

I can only say that it is worth trying. You can try it on just one or a few scars as a test patch. It will take a long time to see results and many needling sessions are necessary.

1507

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Strong alcohol as disinfectant, hyperpigmentation, risk of infection

« on: June 17, 2011, 07:27:25 AM »

The chin is also treatable.

   

  You can use a dermaroller or a dermastamp or a single needle anywhere on the skin with the exception of the upper eyelids (due to the risk of eyeball injury).

   

  And as I explained above, certain rules apply when rolling around the eyes.

1508

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Hypopigmented scar treatment

« on: June 15, 2011, 01:31:34 PM »

I certainly recommend this needling and dermarolling approach for hypopigmented scars.  Very good choice.  I think you should wait at least two more weeks before you start.

   

  You can needle the red spots as well but only if there are no blisters or scabs any more.

1509

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Red stretch Marks on arms

« on: June 15, 2011, 01:30:19 PM »

We don't have video equipment so we won't jump on the YouTube self-promotion bandwagon. I put my knowledge on my website and I try to be honest. First of all, if a seller claims that your stretchmarks will disappear, it is a lie. Currently there is no method that can make stretchmarks disappear. Stretch marks are very deep scars. Only in very rare cases, stretch marks are so shallow that it is possible to remove them completely. You can greatly improve their appearance though.

White Lotus is not a credible company. We exposed their use of fake before-and-after photo's here:

https://http://www.owndoc.com/dermarolling/white-lotus-breast-enhancement-scam/

Their bad advice not to use any vitamins as supporting treatment but their green tea is understandable - it is impossible for any European company to import Retinoic acid creams, for example. So they simply are not able to sell them, and we are because we use a third party. They don't want to lose customers to us, so they claim that vitamins are "bad for the skin". They also tell you to roll three times a week with a 1.5 mm roller, so that you'll maybe even ruin your skin and the roller will be blunt in at most two months and you'll need to buy a new one. And their prices are very high as well.

White Lotus' business model is based on serving the "magical thinkers" niche. The "flower-power hippies". They have zero scientific backup for their "acupuncture breast augmentation" and other wild claims and instead of using vitamins that occur naturally in the body, they want you to believe that vitamins are bad but "ancient oriental wisdom" (powdered tiger bones, anyone?) and herbal teas are good. Quackery. Stay far away from sites that fake their pictures.

    There are medical studies showing that A-Ret helped fresh stretch marks and to a much lesser extent old stretch marks. I recommend applying A-Ret to the stretch marks immediately after dermarolling in case of stubborn stretch marks. It will sting and make them red for days.

   I certainly do not think that A-Ret causes more stretch marks. They keep popping in your case because the tissue volume is increasing, probably in combination with hormonal causes. Nobody knows why some bodybuilders get stretch marks and some do not, why most pregnant women get them but some do not. I am working on an article about the cause of stretch marks and related issues.

   You should not stop exercising but instead limit it a bit. Exercise less or less intensely, so that the muscle volume doesn't grow so quickly. After all, nicely toned muscles even with stretch marks look much better than weak, flabby muscles without stretch marks, in my opinion. Especially on a man.

The slower the muscles grow the lesser chance of developing stretch marks. I know you probably did not overdo the workouts, you were just unlucky.

  BTW if you used steroids to boost your muscle growth (I do not think you did but I want to mention it for others) stop taking it, many anabolic steroids can cause stretch marks!

   

Stretch marks originate in the dermis and it may take a while to show on the skin surface. Your dermis got "rips" and they are now slowly popping up on the surface.

   

  Dermarolling the entire area to prevent new rips is worth trying however so far we have no studies proving that dermarolling or anything else can prevent stretch marks. You have to try.

   Fresh stretch marks are red because there is still blood in them. They will eventually fade.

   You could combine your 1 mm roller with a 1.5 mm ONE LINER that is for the intensive treatment of stretch marks:

   

  https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/New-ONE-LINE-dermaroller-specifically-for-stretch-marks-scars-and-wrinkles

   

It can take one year before you see significant improvement. Patience is necessary here.  

  Yes, young people have quicker healing.

   You can do self-tanning while dermarolling, no problem, nevertheless, dermarolling speeds up the turnover of skin and that will make your tan fade faster.

1510

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Strong alcohol as disinfectant, hyperpigmentation, risk of infection

« on: June 15, 2011, 01:12:00 PM »

The pricks will quickly disappear.  Here is a photo of the skin right after dermarolling, and a day after:

   

  https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/How-long-will-the-redness-last

   

    Concerning dermarolling around the eyes, read my answer here (mine is #3):

   

  https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Can-I-use-a-Dermaroller-on-this-area-under-the-eye

1511

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Why we don't sell adjustable dermastamps

« on: June 15, 2011, 08:42:01 AM »

Hi Sarah,

   

  I came across your site recently and read several topics on your forum.  Its very informative and I'm glad that you've cleared up many misconceptions about Derma Rolling.  

   

  I am looking to purchase a Derma Stamp to get rid of acne scars and make my cheeks and forehead smoother.

   

  I was wondering if you sold an adjustable Derma Stamp similar to the one on the derma-roller website.

 

  I was only able to find the 1.5 mm derma stamp being sold on your website.  

  Please let me know, thanks.



There are many reasons we don't sell such a dermastamp:

1. An adjustable dermastamp can't be properly cleaned. Skin detrius accumulates in the spaces between the needles and the dermastamp body, whereas a fixed-length dermastamp has no such spaces.

2. That dermastamp is too large for targeted treatment of stretchmarks and acne scars etc.

3. That dermastamp has so many needles, that due to the "fakir effect", it is very hard to push them into your skin.

4. In spite of what they claim, their device is not reuseable, due to the impossibility of cleaning the moveable mechanism. There will be 140 hollow spaces that accumulate skin oils and skin flakes. They claim that "other devices are not reuseable", while in reality it is the opposite.

5. For a device with a short lifetime (all microneedling devices will eventually get blunt needles), it is extremely overpriced. They charge 95 GBP, which is 154 dollars. Ours is 17 dollars. That's nine times cheaper.

6. The maximum needle length of their adjustable dermastamp is way to long for safety, neither is a needle length above 2 mm useful for anything.

7. There is no need for adjustablity. 1.5 mm is the "sweet spot" for such a device. shorter needles, and you'll see very little effect when you're deep-targeting stretchmarks and acne scars. Would you pay 150 dollars for a device that doesn't make a difference?

In my opinion, Scientia's business model is to pretend that they have something "special", and they charge outrageous prices, prices that are totally unrelated to the cost of manufacturing or to what such a device can do for you. When you look at their marketing, they are scammers, plain and simple:

"Can you imagine being able to remove your scars, wrinkles and stretch marks with just one simple device?"

I'm sorry, but it is impossible to "remove" scars etc. You can only diminish them.

It's the same old trick: Take a simple, proven concept and come with a "next generation" thingy that costs twice as much to produce, is four times worse in performance, and sell it for eight times more.

It's clear that Scientia is merely a SE Asian sales company with agressive marketing. Nobody there has the slightest knowledge of microneedling and their website is just plain nonsense. Example:

"Use soft and light pressure; it is unnecessary to press excessively hard."

It is of course completely impossible to punch 140 needles through your skin without ramming them in. A dermaroller has approx. the same number of needles, only a small percentage of them penetrate the skin simultaneously.

They also claim that one such dermastamp can replace various dermarollers - a load of bollocks because rollers are perfect to follow the contours of stretchmarks, and rollers come in three widths: Normal width, narrow and single-line. Stamping large square patters is not going to work.

1512

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Strong alcohol as disinfectant, hyperpigmentation, risk of infection

« on: June 13, 2011, 06:25:33 AM »

90% alcohol is not suitable for skin disinfection because it evaporates too quickly from the skin and the skin is not disinfected.  The higher the percentage is not the better. Alcohols are most effective when combined with water to facilitate diffusion through the cell membrane; 100% alcohol typically denatures only external membrane proteins.

   

  More details here:

   

  https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Can-t-find-proper-disinfection-alcohol
/a>

   

If you roll with short needles for products penetration  (< 0.3 mm), you do not have to disinfect your skin but wash the skin before you roll. Soak the roller in warm water with dishwashing detergent after each use (do not forget to rinse it afterwards)) and soak in alcohol every now and then.    

  The likelihood of hyperpigmentation is very low with a dermaroller.

  Hyperpigmentation is more of a problem with laser treatments since lasers work through heat and that can cause trauma to the skin, resulting in hyperpigmentation.

   

  The redness a dermaroller causes is not hyperpigmentation. It is a normal reaction  (inflammation) to the treatment.

   

However, you must avoid sun as much as you can after dermarolling with long needles and protect yourself with a hat and a sunscreen when going outside if you rolled your face.  Exposing freshly dermarolled skin to much sunshine could result in hyperpigmentation.

   

  Freshly dermarolled skin is not yet healed and therefore it is vulnerable.

  Melanin (the pigment triggered in our skin upon sun exposure) absorbs UV light and thus protects us from UV damage. Our body tends to produce more melanin in vulnerable skin areas to protect it from sun damage.

   

You can put clothes on immediately but they should be freshly washed.

   

Tens of thousands of people use dermarollers and they do not get infections.

   

  Yes, you can roll around veins and on your lower back. A dermaroller can be used anywhere on the skin, except on the upper eyelids (due to the risk of eyeball injury).

1513

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Rolling frequency, pressure and vitamin creams

« on: June 11, 2011, 12:12:46 PM »

Regarding the pressure:

   

  https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/how-do-I-know-I-applied-enough-pressure-when-rollingu/a>

   

  https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/New-dermaroller-Amount-of-pressureu/a>

     

Your other questions are answered in our detailed dermarolling instructions:

   

  https://http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

   

Our sales page briefly describes which vitamins/occlusive vitamin ointments to use:  

      https://http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/

How to use our dermarolling products:

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Best-Skin-Care-Routine

1514

Dermarolling / Microneedling / Results in 6 months :)

« on: June 07, 2011, 05:32:58 PM »

Thank you Soon, you made my day!

   It is important to report various experiences so that the others can make their decisions.

1515

Dermarolling / Microneedling / preventive dermarolling

« on: June 07, 2011, 05:18:37 PM »

Sorry you had to wait long for my reply.

 

Preventative dermarolling is a very good idea.

All those areas that you mentioned are likely to already have a certain degree of sun damage even though it doesn’t show that much.

Sun damage (and damage caused by our own metabolism) is the main cause of skin aging. You can see it very well when you compare sun-exposed areas such as the face to skin that was usually hidden from the sun.

The skin consists of two main layers. The epidermis and the dermis.

The turnover of cells in the epidermis is fast. The epidermal cells are constantly being produced at the bottom of epidermis, then they travel up and are eventually sloughed off from the skin surface. It takes about 20 days for the cells to get from the bottom of the epidermis to the skin surface where they are sloughed off. This continuous process slows down as we age but it is sill extremely quick comparing to the turnover of the dermis.

The cells in the dermis have an extremely slow turnover. The half-life turnover of dermal collagen is about 15 years!

What does this mean:

You are born with millions of collagen cells in the dermis.

When you are 15 years old, 50% of the original collagen cells are still there (the other 50% were replaced).

When you are 30 y. old, 25% of the original collagen is still in your skin.

When you are 45 y. old, 12.5% of the original collagen is still in your skin.

When you are 60 y. old, 6.25% of the original collagen is still in your skin.

And again, the newly formed collagen has a half-life turnover of about 15 years.

When you are for example 60 years old, some of the original collagen you had as a newborn is still in your skin. This collagen has been subjected to sun damage and other damage for 60 years. It is no wonder we get wrinkles and sundamaged skin!

When collagen is damaged, the body immediately repairs it but unfortunately as we age, the repair is not perfect and moreover, collagen levels diminishes.

Elastin has even longer half-life turnover. It is about 70 years.

The extremely slow turnover of the cells in the dermis is on of the reasons why a tattoo in the deep dermis (>1 mm) lasts a lifetime. Tattoos slightly lighten in years but the pigment stays for dozens of years. Permanent make-up is not inserted so deep so it lasts long but not as long as a tattoo. 

The advantage of a dermaroller is that you can trick the body to trigger collagen and elastin much sooner than is their natural turnover.  Dermarolling with needles that reach the dermis causes tiny microinjuries in the dermis and the body has to fix these. These microinjuries will trigger new collagen (nevertheless the skin will never be perfect as when you were young).

Ablative methods, such as acid peels or ablative lasers can hardly go the depth of the dermis due to the risk of scarring and hypopigmentation. A dermaroller very easily can go that deep, because it doesn’t ablate the skin, it only pricks it. Since the pricks are surrounded by untreated skin, the regeneration happens very quickly. It takes long to achieve results because every time you roll, you only prick small fractions of the skin. Repeated dermarolling and patience is necessary.

Preventative or corrective dermarolling will speed up the turnover of dermal cells and this can slow down (not stop) the signs of skin aging. Maybe not all signs but at least some.

Use vit. C preventatively as well. As an antioxidant, it partially prevents oxidation damage of skin cells. Both topical and oral intake is useful.

The best anti-aging prevention for the skin is to use a sunscreen on your face 365 days a year. UVA light is intensive also in winter and it goes deep

 into the skin.

 

 It is however very important to get some sun on other parts of your body every now and then:

 https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Sun-protection-with-dermarolling